Afghanistan - 20 years on

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Rroff said:
For one they left the Afghan army strung out trying to defend isolated outposts, configured to US interests still - even just taking the time to transition the Afghan army into a configuration for their own interests would have at least given them a fighting chance - never mind all the messing about with the situation with their air-force, which largely seems to have been driven by politics and making money - leaving them with a fast depleting stock of Russian helicopters and a messy situation trying to adapt to US helicopters which were delayed in delivery any way.
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The withdrawal didn't cause the Afghan army to fail. They've been failing for years before that. If they couldn't get it together over the last 20yrs no amount of time was ever going to fix it.
 
dowie said:
Sure... in your alternative Biden Boy reality where the total farce we're now in over there was seemingly the best we could have gotten...

All the politicians, academics, journalists critical of it just don't understand how masterful it was of the US to end up surrounded at the Airport and Kabul overrun so rapidly.
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Hard to both leave and stay at the same time.
 
OspreyO said:
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The withdrawal didn't cause the Afghan army to fail. They've been failing for years before that. If they couldn't get it together over the last 20yrs no amount of time was ever going to fix it.
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Yes there has been a lot of failing but that is only half the truth - there was around 70K forces including NDS and the air-force, etc. who didn't just run away when it came to a fight (or about 50K out of the on paper 180-190K standing regular forces).

One of the aspects people seem to be missing a lot is the transition to autonomy of their armed forces - the US kind of hamstrung them in that they still had one leg in trying to do their own thing and one leg at the beck and call of the US and US interests - if the last few months had been a proper handover to full autonomy they might have had some kind of chance even if a slim one rather than pretty much no chance at all.

One of the reasons they collapsed so quickly was that many of their regular forces were strung out in isolated outposts, etc. still configured for US interests, after the US had left, instead of holding strategic points for maintaining control of the country against the Taliban - the Taliban simply concentrated their forces in taking the strategic points bypassing the Afghan army and leaving them little choice but to surrender or flee. Hence why I said over a week before it happened they were going to lose the country and likely before 3 weeks - while most other commentators were talking in months or even saying the Afghan army could prevail.
 
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Uther said:
Taliban saying there'll be 'consequences' if the US/UK try to delay the 31st August withdrawal date. This could get very messy.
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Though actual combat would be another matter if the remaining countries involved couldn't match the current US security footprint if the US withdrew that would be rather concerning. Sure there are some issues like intel which the US has something of a monopoly on :s
 
RoboCod said:
2 Para showing the world why we have the best military.
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Not as a soldier - I always remember in a previous job I got to spend some time with 1 Para - was quite proud of myself keeping up with them on an 8 mile run in full kit... oh wait that was just the start... (they wouldn't have let me do the rest anyhow being a civilian).
 
Rroff said:
Though actual combat would be another matter if the remaining countries involved couldn't match the current US security footprint if the US withdrew that would be rather concerning. Sure there are some issues like intel which the US has something of a monopoly on :s
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We have the capability to match the footprint, but it's easier to ignore that and blame the US instead from a political standpoint.

This situation only exists because Europe won't take responsibility for itself, preferring to be dependent on the US administration taking all the heat and avoiding political pressures of sending our own forces to risk their lives instead of Americans risking theirs.

I don't think i'll be putting much weight on hollow criticism of the US when the rest of NATO sits around doing nothing in comparison.
 
OspreyO said:
That's a nonsensical reply.

If Biden wasn't helping them, they'd have no military presence left at the airport. Reports are they are going out to those still left and escorting them back in.

The US has been pulling out of Afghanistan for a decade. They pulled out the majority of their forces a month or more ago. Why people have left it till now decide to leave, or in some cases only recently traveled to Afghanistan baffles me. No one can be surprised at what's happened here.

The withdrawal was poorly planned. No doubt.
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The UK troops are going out.
But Biden won't let the US troops go out. It's already been posted by me with link pages back.
 
deuse said:
The UK troops are going out.
But Biden won't let the US troops go out. It's already been posted by me with link pages back.
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Largely I suspect that is because Biden's position is a bit precarious. As things stand his approval rating will likely bounce back in time but if there is another serious incident for instance US troop deaths it could be a very different matter.
 
Uther said:
Taliban saying there'll be 'consequences' if the US/UK try to delay the 31st August withdrawal date. This could get very messy.
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Who would have thought it!

It's almost like completely breaking an agreement with a group like that would be a bad idea and likely lead to far worse consequences than than what is happening right now...
 
dowie said:
Sure... in your alternative Biden Boy reality where the total farce we're now in over there was seemingly the best we could have gotten...

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"Biden Boy". Just lol.

I love how staying grounded and appreciating that there was no good ending or smooth way out of this is NOT living in reality, whilst your entirely vague dreamt up vision of a better outcome , based on some news articles you have read /parroting politicians with an agenda is...

Magic :D
 
Jono8 said:
Who would have thought it!

It's almost like completely breaking an agreement with a group like that would be a bad idea and likely lead to far worse consequences than than what is happening right now...
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I'm not sure the consequences are going to be much better if there is a strong need for an extension. One way or another they've totally screwed up on this one and ultimately the buck stops with Biden.
 
Jono8 said:
Indeed.

There was no good solution to this. The plaster had to be pulled and the inevitable consequences lived with.

Those pretending otherwise, imagining some fairy tale ending, or somehow putting most of this on Biden sound ridiculous.
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It's not what you do.
It's the way that you do it.

Biden got it all wrong.
He won't let the US troops go and get americans while the UK troops do.

He started the pull out to late and never got commercial plane companies in vovled.
 
Rroff said:
I'm not sure the consequences are going to be much better if there is a strong need for an extension. One way or another they've totally screwed up on this one and ultimately the buck stops with Biden.
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Once again, you seem to be overlooking the time constraints set by the previous administration and their stupid actions that led to things like visa delays etc.

Sure, Biden is running the show now but he was dealt an immensely ***** hand and a pretty much unwinnable (in terms of an outcome he wouldn't get criticised or) situation.
 
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