Alcohol and ability to consent

Burnsy2023 · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:15

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-32973997

Report author Dame Elish Angiolini also called for legal amendments so if a person is severely intoxicated they lose the capacity to consent to sex.

Seems like an interesting move which would make prosecutions easier to prove. Is it workable though and would it just lead to arguments over what "severely" constitutes?

Arthur Hucksake · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:17

Also, will men be able to make the claim as well?

Zefan · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:18

Inb4 Begbie.

Monkeynut · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:18

Why such a huge rise? 68%?!

Amnesia · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:21

So when 2 drunks have sex, who raped who ?
or do they both get charged with raping each other whilst being raped.

Glaucus · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:23

Sounds terrible.
You know it would only be implemented in one direction.
Drunk sex is great. Under such a law, it wouldn't be legal.

It's an absolutely terrible idea from start to Finnish.

Burnsy2023 · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:23

Monkeynut said:
Why such a huge rise? 68%?!

Rape has always been severely under-reported. The consensus is that more people are coming forward as they believe that their case will be investigated properly by Police.

jsmoke · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:26

Monkeynut said:
Why such a huge rise? 68%?!

Herd mentality?

Mynight · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:26

Amnesia said:
So when 2 drunks have sex, who raped who ?
or do they both get charged with raping each other whilst being raped.

The man raped the woman no excuses :rolleyes:

.

I think this is a bad idea there's no way to prove someone was severely intoxicated more than their say so. Not all clubs/pubs cover their entire bar in cctv so that wouldn't work.

I'm not trying to be a victim blamer sorry just feel this may give more ammunition to people who sleep with another person then regret it in the morning.

I still can't believe rape happens so much it disgusts me

.

dowie · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:31

Burnsy2023 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-32973997

Seems like an interesting move which would make prosecutions easier to prove. Is it workable though and would it just lead to arguments over what "severely" constitutes?

well what does severely drunk constitute? Aren't people already charged over this - Ched Evans for example slept with a girl deemed too drunk to have consented - I'm not quite sure what the law changes in this regard.

What if both parties are drunk - have they raped/sexually assaulted each other or is it only males who can rape? In which case two gay men go home with each other, drunk, sleep with each other... are they both rapists and victims simultaneously?

balky12 · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:34

dowie said:
What if both parties are drunk - have they raped/sexually assaulted each other or is it only males who can rape? In which case two gay men go home with each other, drunk, sleep with each other... are they both rapists and victims simultaneously?

Technically only a man can commit rape. So yes, in this case only the man would be charged.

Women can only be done for sexual assault.

Moothead2 · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:34

dowie said:
What if both parties are drunk - have they raped/sexually assaulted each other or is it only males who can rape? In which case two gay men go home with each other, drunk, sleep with each other... are they both rapists and victims simultaneously?

I'd imagine it's the one doing the poking in that instance. Though I guess they both could. Can't say I'm fully aware of what goes on in those situations to be honest

.

randal · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:35

Glaucus said:
It's an absolutely terrible idea from start to Finnish.

Yep, I definitely think the Finns would have something to say about this but I don't see how that's relevant.

Mynight · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:35

Moothead2 said:
Can't say I'm fully aware of what goes on in those situations to be honest .

Were you drunk?

dowie · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:41

Glaucus said:
Sounds terrible.
You know it would only be implemented in one direction.
Drunk sex is great. Under such a law, it wouldn't be legal.

It's an absolutely terrible idea from start to Finnish.

yup

people get amorous when they're drunk, sleep with people they might not otherwise have slept with...

I can't for one moment envisage a male claiming rape after having slept with a huge fog beast he picked up at 01:50am just before the club closed....

I can quite easily envisage a girl waking up next to a random ugly bloke and feeling very uncomfortable... perhaps regretting the encounter as much as the guy who slept with the fog beast. She feels dirty and used... but unlike the bloke who will shake off the situation and maybe try to sneak the fog beast out of the flat before his uni flatmates see her the girl might well feel like she has been taken advantage of.

Not to undermine actual rapes where people have been barely conscious etc.. but drunken hookups that people later regret are quite common and often both parties are as responsible as each other for it. A new law presuming a lack of consent at a certain level of drunkenness is very likely to do so on the basis that the female is always the victim regardless of whether both parties were drunk.

.Lethal · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:42

Burnsy2023 said:
Rape has always been severely under-reported. The consensus is that more people are coming forward as they believe that their case will be investigated properly by Police.

Probably the biggest reason but certainly not the only reason in recent years.

Brenn47 · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:46

I've been accused of rape, met a girl in a bar, went back to mine, did the deed, the next day she wanted a relationship, I didn't, so she went to the police in revenge.

Had the police around, and her mum, wasn't charged or cautioned, it was completely consensual. Crying rape when you don't get your way should be an mandatory imprisonable offence. This was over 20 years ago, the police didn't even take my name, she just wanted revenge.

Disclaimer: I have never been in trouble with the police, ever.

jsmoke · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:55

You must have given a statement or she must have dropped the complaint?

doofer · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:57

So effectively the Law says you can get so drunk that you couldn't possibly be in control of yourself or your own actions and therefore anyone taking advantage of this is automatically guilty.

Surely the same can be put forwards for ALL cases involving Drink. You're either in control and responsible for your own actions or not, if you're not then why are there so many convictions for Drink Driving, Drunk and Disorderly etc. when these people clearly were not in control of themselves or responsible in any way for their actions through Drink?

Can't have it both ways.

Jono · 2 Jun 2015 at 16:57

Brenn47 said:
I've been accused of rape, met a girl in a bar, went back to mine, did the deed, the next day she wanted a relationship, I didn't, so she went to the police in revenge.

Had the police around, and her mum, wasn't charged or cautioned, it was completely consensual. Crying rape when you don't get your way should be an mandatory imprisonable offence. This was over 20 years ago, the police didn't even take my name, she just wanted revenge.

Disclaimer: I have never been in trouble with the police, ever.

Twenty plus years ago. You wouldn't get away with that nowadays, I'd wager.