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Alder Lake-S leaks

Boosty burst or bust!

All good news for power supply manufacturers. After the bursty behaviour of Ampere, they now get sell supplies designed for the bursty behaviour of Alder Lake!

So a rig which pulls 500W averaged per minute, might need a few milliseconds burst of 800W, or similar but the supply has to recognise this isn't a fault and not to trigger the over current protection. Sound like the percentage spent on PSU when budgeting a computer build just went up again. OEMs likes HP and Dell will probably just disable PL4!
 
KompuKare said:
Boosty burst or bust!

All good news for power supply manufacturers. After the bursty behaviour of Ampere, they now get sell supplies designed for the bursty behaviour of Alder Lake!

So a rig which pulls 500W averaged per minute, might need a few milliseconds burst of 800W, or similar but the supply has to recognise this isn't a fault and not to trigger the over current protection. Sound like the percentage spent on PSU when budgeting a computer build just went up again. OEMs likes HP and Dell will probably just disable PL4!
Click to expand...


The OEM are already facing higher power supply costs, due to new efficiency laws in the US, new pre Builth have to use a minimum of a gold certification PSU - power supplies is one area where OEM's have traditionally being able to cut costs to improve margins but not so much anymore as they have to use energy efficient units
 
Even 10900k power performance was diabolical. The amount of power (and hence noise) they take to get their last 10% of performance is ridiculous. Intel lets them boost to stupid levels of power consumption in the quest to win the battle of the bar graphs. It's quite clear it's really an all-core 4.3ghz, single core 4.8ghz chip with a factory suicide overclock applied (OK, I exagerate, a very little bit)
Speaking from experience of getting 2 10900k HP 30L systems for work - yes, HP are 50% to blame for using a single - rad design for such a power hungry CPU but Intel are 50% to blame too, because that chip never, ever should have had those power parameters out the box. Props to Intel for XTU though - you can make it run at sensible power envelope / temps with a pretty minimal CPU performance loss - again, it's an all-core 4.3/ single core 4.8 chip & once you limit it's power draw to 140w max, it shows itself to be a decent budget option vs superior 5900x chips. (Arguably even 5800x)
 
Grim5 said:
The OEM are already facing higher power supply costs, due to new efficiency laws in the US, new pre Builth have to use a minimum of a gold certification PSU - power supplies is one area where OEM's have traditionally being able to cut costs to improve margins but not so much anymore as they have to use energy efficient units
Click to expand...
Actually, the big box suppliers like Dell, HP etc, while they have been getting eveything else wrong (see especially, CPU cooling, case airflow, any type of expandability or compatability) have been using decent gold-rated PSUs for their better machines & generally, their PSUs have been the only decently specced thing in their crappy machines for years & years. I guess they learned from all the RMAs in the 2000s
 
No release date yet ? I hope it doesnt get delayed into 2022 even though im almost certainly not going to buy it unless there is a massive performance leap
 
dave28 said:
No release date yet ? I hope it doesnt get delayed into 2022 even though im almost certainly not going to buy it unless there is a massive performance leap
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It was always 2022. Desktop 12th gen isn't due until the end of this year and is rumoured to be a paper launch anyway to steal a bit of bar chart and marketing thunder before AMD do something. First to DDR5, first to PCIe Gen 5 despite the former being expensive rubbish at launch and the latter offering zero benefit, especially as Intel won't be using it for storage where it actually matters.

Actual volume is suggested as Q1 2022, by which time AMD will have the 3D stacked Zen 3 revision out, more than likely taking all the bar chart numbers back.
 
LePhuronn said:
It was always 2022. Desktop 12th gen isn't due until the end of this year and is rumoured to be a paper launch anyway to steal a bit of bar chart and marketing thunder before AMD do something. First to DDR5, first to PCIe Gen 5 despite the former being expensive rubbish at launch and the latter offering zero benefit, especially as Intel won't be using it for storage where it actually matters.

Actual volume is suggested as Q1 2022, by which time AMD will have the 3D stacked Zen 3 revision out, more than likely taking all the bar chart numbers back.
Click to expand...

DDR5 will only be relevant for systems with >16c 32t chips or ones that require a lot of memory capacity per channel.

DDR5 will benefit servers and workstations, desktops systems not so much, especially if the primary use is gaming.

What Intel need are parts with 10,12,14 and 16 big cores with reasonable power use.
 
Grim5 said:
The leakers are claiming the 12900k beats the 5950x in multithread benchmarks.

But it's difficult to ascertain if its accurate and also if its an apples to apples comparison. I suspect not because the 12900k system is using DDR5 memory which in many cases would give it a leg up against DDR4 system like the 5950x is limited to.

It is possible that's Windows 11 and Intel's new scheduler combined with this big.little architecture has in fact made a massive improvement to multithreaded system performance but it could just as easily just be the DDR5 that's doing it - only time will tell.

Either way it's still impressive. The 11900k has about half the multithread performance of the 5950x, so if by adding 8 little cores clocked at 3.7ghz along with a new scheduler, some IPC improvements and DDR5 has allowed it to more than double it's multithreaded performance then that's amazing.
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The 5950X is nearly 2X the performance of my 5800X, is that impressive? I would be more impressed if they both had the same number of cores, the fact that the 5950X has 16 and the 5800X only 8 makes that less impressive.

If Zen 4 has 80% higher performance and 24 cores how impressive would that be?
-----------------

With the memory you might be on to something, DDR5 it seems, at least 4800Mhz vs 3200Mhz DDR4 seems to have much lower latency.

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel...4-ram-spotted-10-20-slower-than-ddr-variants/

The only thing we know about Alder Lake is a presumed R20 score, no screenshots to back anything up, just a twitter account making these claims.

MLID is also on a massive hype trip over Alder Lake, as are a few other leakers, so on the one hand i'm cautious about calling them out on it but on the other hand MLID and others went on the same hype trip over Rocket Lake and look how that turned out. Its all already forgotten.

Intel seem to have this effect on people.
 
humbug said:
The 5950X is nearly 2X the performance of my 5800X, is that impressive? I would be more impressed if they both had the same number of cores, the fact that the 5950X has 16 and the 5800X only 8 makes that less impressive.
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You buying a full CPU would be impressive :p
 
Quixote said:
Even 10900k [...] once you limit it's power draw to 140w max, it shows itself to be a decent budget option vs superior 5900x chips. (Arguably even 5800x)
Click to expand...

Is it really budget? I'm planning a new workstation and Intel have never let me down, but at £450 the 10900X is £50 less than the 5900X and 11900K, the same as the 3900XT if you don't mind dropping back a generation, and £90 more than the 5800X and 3900X. How does performance stack up against them?
 
Ah, Intel must be behind as their Architecture Day seems to actually be talking about upcoming stuff:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16881/a-deep-dive-into-intels-alder-lake-microarchitectures

Intel Thread Director
We knew this, but they definitely are not going to wait for kernel schedulers to catch up.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16881/a-deep-dive-into-intels-alder-lake-microarchitectures/2

Instruction Sets: Alder Lake Dumps AVX-512 in a BIG Way
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16881/a-deep-dive-into-intels-alder-lake-microarchitectures/5
After all the AVX-512 hype we get this:
The biggest thing that gets the cut is that Intel is losing AVX-512 support inside Alder Lake. When we say losing support, we mean that the AVX-512 is going to be physically fused off, so even if you ran the processor with the E-cores disabled at boot time, AVX-512 is still disabled.
Click to expand...

Anyway, haven't read all of it yet.
There's GPU coverage too.
 
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