Alec Baldwin fatally shoots woman with prop gun on movie set

It should be pointed out that many cartridge conversions were/are done to old western guns, this includes the Dragoon. So it's still possible it used conventional cartridges and not black powder.
 
Dis86 said:
a) treat the weapon as if it contains live ammunition
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As I’m sure you know, all guns are always loaded.

dowie said:
Looks like they have to put a bunch of caps on this one which are visible as per the video below no?

If it was supposed to be a "cold" gun* i.e. not containing any rounds then that would surely be dubious:
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The percussion cap is the last stage of the loading process. I don’t know if they’re visible on a Dragoon or not, sorry.
 
Feek said:
As I’m sure you know, all guns are always loaded.



The percussion cap is the last stage of the loading process. I don’t know if they’re visible on a Dragoon or not, sorry.
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Think I found the same video as dowie and they definitely look visible.

You're right BTW, defo no using a speed loader with an original Dragoon :D

That's assuming it is one as I can only see it stated that the weapon might have been a 'vintage colt'
 
Dis86 said:
Think I found the same video as dowie and they definitely look visible.

You're right BTW, defo no using a speed loader with an original Dragoon :D

That's assuming it is one as I can only see it stated that the weapon might have been a 'vintage colt'
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Yeah, they look pretty visible tbh...

Regardless of that it does also beg the question of general procedures, if you can't be sure that a given firearm is loaded or not can't do an equivalent of an NSP to see what state it is in quickly then surely the actor and armourer should be present when loading and/or when handing over... armourer showing it is clear before handover etc.. if it is supposed to be "cold" etc.. as per the comments from the local 44 member.

The principles can still be there, just adapt as per the firearm. It's ridiculous to be in possession of a potentially lethal weapon and not know whether it is loaded or not.
 
If only there was a way - a useful way that is not posting on the internet from somewhere nowhere near the event and with almost certain lack of credentials and evidence and professional expertise relating to this matter - in which a body of people could review the evidence by talking to the actual people involved and reviewing the situation with a view of working out what happened and how, the responsibilities and culpability (if any) for what happens next. My main concern is that there are 445 factual posts in this thread and it would be a terrible shame if not only did the case not have a body of people to police the issue (say, there's a name for what they could call themselves!) but it were deprived of 445 expert opinions.
 
[FnG]magnolia said:
If only there was a way - a useful way that is not posting on the internet from somewhere nowhere near the event and with almost certain lack of credentials and evidence and professional expertise relating to this matter - in which a body of people could review the evidence by talking to the actual people involved and reviewing the situation with a view of working out what happened and how, the responsibilities and culpability (if any) for what happens next. My main concern is that there are 445 factual posts in this thread and it would be a terrible shame if not only did the case not have a body of people to police the issue (say, there's a name for what they could call themselves!) but it were deprived of 445 expert opinions.
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Don't be silly, human tragedy is weekend entertainment
 
[FnG]magnolia said:
If only there was a way - a useful way that is not posting on the internet from somewhere nowhere near the event and with almost certain lack of credentials and evidence and professional expertise relating to this matter - in which a body of people could review the evidence by talking to the actual people involved and reviewing the situation with a view of working out what happened and how, the responsibilities and culpability (if any) for what happens next. My main concern is that there are 445 factual posts in this thread and it would be a terrible shame if not only did the case not have a body of people to police the issue (say, there's a name for what they could call themselves!) but it were deprived of 445 expert opinions.
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Heaven forbid a discussion forum is used for actual discussion rather than occasionally popping into threads with inane ramblings.

Anyway, more concerns emerge about the AD:

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/24/...ssistant-director-halls-complaints/index.html
An assistant director on the film set of "Rust" was the subject of complaints over safety and his behavior on set during two productions in 2019, two people who worked closely with him tell CNN.

The complaints against assistant director Dave Halls include a disregard for safety protocols for weapons and pyrotechnics use, blocked fire lanes and exits, and instances of inappropriately sexual behavior in the workplace.
[...]
Maggie Goll, an IATSE Local 44 prop maker and licensed pyrotechnician, said in a statement to CNN that while working on Hulu's "Into the Dark" Anthology Series in February and May of 2019, Halls neglected to hold safety meetings and consistently failed to announce the presence of a firearm on set to the crew, as is protocol.

"The only reason the crew was made aware of a weapon's presence was because the assistant prop master demanded Dave acknowledge and announce the situation each day," Goll's statement reads.

She adds that the prop master would "announce each day when a gun would be required on camera, the disposition of that weapon -- whether it was a rubber/plastic replica, a non-firing option, or a 'cold' functional, but unloaded option, allowing anyone to inspect said weapon prior to bringing it to set and presenting it to the talent. (...) The Prop Master frequently admonished Dave for dismissing the talent without returning props, weapon included, or failing to make safety announcements."
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[FnG]magnolia said:
If only there was a way - a useful way that is not posting on the internet from somewhere nowhere near the event and with almost certain lack of credentials and evidence and professional expertise relating to this matter - in which a body of people could review the evidence by talking to the actual people involved and reviewing the situation with a view of working out what happened and how, the responsibilities and culpability (if any) for what happens next. My main concern is that there are 445 factual posts in this thread and it would be a terrible shame if not only did the case not have a body of people to police the issue (say, there's a name for what they could call themselves!) but it were deprived of 445 expert opinions.
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Another round of covid lockdowns getting to you there?
 
[FnG]magnolia said:
Hmm? No. It's just a little disheartening to see someone's death be put to oneside in order for some posters to win the internet through attritional posting, clear blame agendas with wobbly foundations, and general murkiness of intent.
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Instead of via sardonic high roading?
 
[FnG]magnolia said:
Hmm? No. It's just a little disheartening to see someone's death be put to oneside in order for some posters to win the internet through attritional posting, clear blame agendas with wobbly foundations, and general murkiness of intent.
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Yet here you are, more interested in talking about other posters than the actual subject of the thread.
 
I wonder if it's better to consider a terrible situation but keep an open mind until facts and credible opinion emerge or consider a situation that you then make slightly more terrible by insinuating and casting blame without any real knowledge of that situation?
 
[FnG]magnolia said:
I wonder if it's better to consider a terrible situation but keep an open mind until facts and credible opinion emerge or consider a situation that you then make slightly more terrible by insinuating and casting blame without any real knowledge of that situation?
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Do you just sit at home and read court transcripts in your skivvies?
 
[FnG]magnolia said:
I wonder if it's better to consider a terrible situation but keep an open mind until facts and credible opinion emerge or consider a situation that you then make slightly more terrible by insinuating and casting blame without any real knowledge of that situation?
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Don't be silly, what else we gonna do on a Sunday night, interact with our loved ones?

Are you insane?
 
[FnG]magnolia said:
I wonder if it's better to consider a terrible situation but keep an open mind until facts and credible opinion emerge or consider a situation that you then make slightly more terrible by insinuating and casting blame without any real knowledge of that situation?
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Plenty of facts have emerged no one has said don’t keep an open mind. I’m really not sure what your issue is here, if you’re not interested in discussing the thread topic then why not just read another thread etc..
 
dowie said:
Anyway, more concerns emerge about the AD:
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As someone responsible for the operation of a large warehouse and office building overnight and in the past did health and safety audits on company sites blocked fire exits drive me up the wall - how anyone is so short sighted they can't see the problem with it and/or so unaware of the presence of things like fire exits despite being briefed on it regularly boggles my mind on an almost weekly basis.
 
Tefal said:
so my guess is going to be some people on set have been using the cowboy gun for fun and it's been returned with a round in it
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Called it


Members of the film crew working on the set where a cinematographer was shot dead by the actor Alec Baldwin are reported to have been using the gun involved for live target practice.

the gun was used for recreational purposes off set, with real ammunition that may have accidentally been left in the weapon when it was handed to Baldwin, 63, during a rehearsal.
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ldwins-gun-for-live-target-practice-fdcjd8tsc
 
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