Am I being unreasonable?

[muon]

I disagree. The OP has explained a situation which is predominantly about money, and asked for opinions. Then someone asks if the answers would be the same if the money involved was double what the OP has stated.

Duh.

Money isn't a problem from everything described.

High household income, low mortgage payments. 2 sets of personal tax allowances.

It is all about being comfortable with the idea, rather than money being a problem.

Ultimately, if I was the OP I would have given up on the idea a long time ago, but not because the OPs calculations are unsound. I would have attempted the compromise I mentioned in my prior posts though.

 

[413x]

Well from some of the answers, it would still be unreasonable (which is okay).

Financially the OP is pretty secure.

Money isn't a problem from everything described.

High household income, low mortgage payments. 2 sets of personal tax allowances.

It is all about being comfortable with the idea, rather than money being a problem.

Ultimately, if I was the OP I would have given up on the idea a long time ago.

I wouldn't say that is a high household income.
Certainly not to drop 20k of loan on a car when other isn't paid

 

[JBuk]

If you can afford it but your missus is upset for whatever reason to the point of a break up then you obviously have marriage issues whether you want a new car or not

 

[muon]

I wouldn't say that is a high household income.
Certainly not to drop 20k of loan on a car when other isn't paid

Remember that £20k loan is backed with an asset.

Just save up and put a £5k deposit down and I reckon the loan itself isn't a problem.

(I would consider how that loan is funded though, stupid to pay 5% on a loan and overpay on a 2% mortgage).

Then it is all about whether spending £330 a month on a car is acceptable.

 

[Kalexuz]

.

Thanks Fox, I think what you're saying is definitely something I'll be thinking about.

.

My brother actually had an R34 as well, stage 2 tuned; I don't know how any other car that isn't a supercar can bring you joy anymore but then I guess this is the epiphany that I too need to have.

I see the point you're making though.

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She's said that if I can save up, even half of it, I can get one (the second hand one). I guess I am just impulsive though as it seemed years off and she wants a new kitchen which I don't think will add value to the house, but would likely be bought using this money. I was also using the logic that 'old' BMW maintenance costs can be massive so a priority was one with around 25k miles on it tops to allow me easily the full loan term to get a cheaper BMW warranty (doubles at 60k miles from what I know).

I think I'll have a conversation with her about a compromise. If we could pay off my loan and her car finance early, or just endure the ~2.5 years that's left on both of them, I guess we'll be in a much better financial position.

.

I paid £6,500 for the FN2 nearly 3 years ago. I took out a £7,500 loan for it originally (pay back £8,700 I think it is) which has £3,500 left on it today. According to autotrader prices, I'd say my car is worth in the region of £5,500 to £6,000 due to low-ish miles for its age and I guess the release of the new Civic R generating more interest in the model itself.

Tax/Insurance wise, the 135i is £90 less on Tax and is £400 for me to insure, £100 less than the FN2 costs. I'm not saying this is justification though, but it was bringing down the 'running costs' in my head if that's how best to put it.

Maintenance wise, the FN2 has cost me servicing (£250 & £400 for year 1 and 2, 3rd isn't due yet), 4 x new tyres (£440), new discs/pads all round (£300 fitted them myself), a new brake caliper (£120 fitted myself) and a few niggly things like a blown wing mirror indicator unit (£50).

I'm under no disillusion that a 135i gone wrong without warranty protection will cost a lot more to fix though and general maintenance/servicing is higher, although I don't think that'd be massively different.

Thanks everyone, I do appreciate the posts.

 

[EvilRob]

Well, it is £330 on £1600 net where the mortgage is already covered.

It is very reasonable.

I think if the OP ensures they have equity in the car so that of they were to lose their job, the wife wouldn't have to pay the monthly it should normally be acceptable.

Very much disagree. That represents over 20% of his take home. I'd regard that as an extremely expensive extravagance for a discretionary cost. I'd also question how much spare income the OP really has if he doesn't have any savings to put towards this (I guess he may have some that he hasn't mentioned, but he has been pretty candid about everything else so seems unlikely.)

It is frustrating, but being sensible with money when you are young pays massive dividends later in life. With a wife and young child, that's what I'd look to be doing.

 

[glenimp617]

The issue isn't 100% based on disposable income. Long term debt and risk of being made redundant could be playing on her mind. The mrs probably doesn't want any financial risk at this time. What happens if one of you gets ill, or something major happens at work and they have lay offs. How could you pay the loan. Guess you could sell the car at that point though.

I'm wondering if the OP could soften the blow with perhaps looking at a slightly cheaper car (whichever way you look at it, 135i, 140i is a fancy car). Perhaps something between 10-15k. That said, I also think the OP should see about getting rid of other luxuries to part pay for it (ecigs being one).

My experience, I have seen this time and time again. It never ends well.

or.....curve ball. How much is a 1-2 year lease? You get the itch scratched and you know the monthly payments will end earlier than a loan. Just an idea.

I'm a family man myself and also wanted a new car. There had to be a compromise though. I also wanted a new BMW and she said no. We ended up with a six month old BMW (yeah for me)....which was a diesel (Boooo....but kept her happy). This car was actually cheaper per month for us in the end due to tax, diesel, and we got a 5yr service plan for free. ok.....it's by no means a performance car, but I really like it and so does she (no arguments here). Plus the kids think it's great.

 

[413x]

Remember that £20k loan is backed with an asset.

Just save up and put a £5k deposit down and I reckon the loan itself isn't a problem.

Then it is all about whether spending £330 a month on a car is acceptable.

I would say that asset would lose a lot of money if it was needed to repay in event of problem. But then I'm adverse to debt that isn't an investment. Most I'll put on choice credit is a few K. But I suppose that's personal.

Only the OP and wife can decide if 330 is a lot with a child. I'd say it's manageable, but for a toy it would need agreement from both. If this is a 5th of income. That's a lot

 

[muon]

Very much disagree. That represents over 20% of his take home. I'd regard that as an extremely expensive extravagance for a discretionary cost. I'd also question how much spare income the OP really has if he doesn't have any savings to put towards this (I guess he may have some that he hasn't mentioned, but he has been pretty candid about everything else so seems unlikely.)

It is frustrating, but being sensible with money when you are young pays massive dividends later in life. With a wife and young child, that's what I'd look to be doing.

Disposable income is pretty much always spent on discretionary purchases?

What do you do with left over income, after paying the mortgage, bills, food pension etc.

 

[JBuk]

Disposable income is pretty much always spent on discretionary purchases?

What do you do with left over income, after paying the mortgage, bills, food pension etc.

Save every penny of it, have miserable life, die

 

[EvilRob]

Disposable income is pretty much always spent on discretionary purchases?

What do you do with left over income, after paying the mortgage, bills, food pension etc.

Invest it for the future, as I alluded to. Not all of it, but for me 20% of my take home would be way too much. It appears from the OP's recent post he has zero savings, so I would suggest 20% of his take home would be too much for him too.

 

[Kalexuz]

We generally save about £300-400 a month but that gets absorbed by holidays and my wife's part-time Uni fees. Also, I am buying £150 worth of shares a month (costs me £102 net) and I get 1 free share for every 5 bought (~£9.90 each), that's an investment which pretty safely doubles your monetary input over the long term and we overpay our mortgage about 20%.

That said, I do see your point, it wasn't long ago I put forth overpaying our mortgage perhaps by 50%+. I'm definitely surprised by the almost resounding disagreement and I'm reconsidering the future and how better to secure the family future, whilst eventually leaving something for "me" as someone put it.

 

[muon]

Wait until she finishes university? How long to go?

Also remember those shares will still attract income tax and NI unless you wait 5 years. Having all your savings (other than the house) in the share price of one company isn't that safe.

 

[Pulsedriver]

I would say it's a little too much to spend £20k on a car in that situation.

Is there not a compromise car you could go for? There are so many good cars around the 7-9k price range, which would be a far better choice than whacking 20k on a car, the 135i is not really a family car either, what about an E90? Better than a Civic by a country mile but not bank busting, may keep the wife happy if she's allowed to drive it too.. Petrol models would be about £6k for a decent one I would imagine.

It's probably hard , but what about totally giving up the e-cig thing, that saves you £100 a month to put towards a loan.

If you REALLY want to change car, keep the peace with a compromise of not spending so much on one.

Whilst I don't agree with some people when they say don't buy an expensive car if you have a mortgage, there has to be a compromise, if you like nice cars, don't bankrupt yourself, find a happy medium.

...Just my 2p

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Get a lease. You can get something nice for less per month and a small deposit.

 

[muon]

Get a lease. You can get something nice for less per month and a small deposit.

RWD with some power?

I don't think you will.

Something like the Golf R is more achievable though. But then not massively different to a Type R.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

RWD with some power?

I don't think you will.

Something like the Golf R is more achievable though.

Perhaps not more powerful or rwd, but certainly something nice and brand new. Could get a MB A Class for under £250pm or a Honda CRV. Maybe not something a petrol head would chose, but a compromise for the wifey.

 

[Zhuni]

Its 20 grand you could put to the mortgage, sorry but I'm with wifey!

+1. That's a lot of money just for a car.

 

[Tom_ed1987]

Buy a 10 year old Forester STi for 8k, sell the 'family wagon thinking of the kids' angle to her, job done

 

[Kalexuz]

Wait until she finishes university? How long to go?

Also remember those shares will still attract income tax and NI unless you wait 5 years. Having all your savings (other than the house) in the share price of one company isn't that safe.

I don't fully understand how long she'll have left. At the moment she's doing a masters but I think to become a psychotherapist she needs a doctorate so perhaps another 4+ years. I didn't go to University myself so I don't understand how it works it's all over my head.

I know about the Tax/NI implications of shares. My thoughts with them are that I'd be able to take ~£2,500 every year after year 5 Tax/NI free to pay for family holidays when my little girl is in school and I'm lumped with these inflated holiday season prices (this is the truth!). I work for a FTSE 100 company, which of course is not guaranteed safety, but it's pretty much neutralising any risk I'd otherwise associate with 'gambling'.

I would say it's a little too much to spend £20k on a car in that situation.

Is there not a compromise car you could go for? There are so many good cars around the 7-9k price range, which would be a far better choice than whacking 20k on a car, the 135i is not really a family car either, what about an E90? Better than a Civic by a country mile but not bank busting, may keep the wife happy if she's allowed to drive it too.. Petrol models would be about £6k for a decent one I would imagine.

It's probably hard , but what about totally giving up the e-cig thing, that saves you £100 a month to put towards a loan.

If you REALLY want to change car, keep the peace with a compromise of not spending so much on one.

Whilst I don't agree with some people when they say don't buy an expensive car if you have a mortgage, there has to be a compromise, if you like nice cars, don't bankrupt yourself, find a happy medium.

...Just my 2p

My wife hates cars. They're just a means to an end to her so I could rock up in a supercar and she'd prefer her Yaris for practicality reasons any day of the week

I think I'm going to speak with my wife and discuss about a future compromise. Maybe in a couple years a 135i will be more attainable given our circumstances.

I do get the point about the ecig though; ridiculous when I think about it although I actually like the act of 'smoking'. I'm definitely looking into making my own juice like someone posted earlier.