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AMD 7nm GPU News and Rumours 2018/2019

The specs make perfect sense. They want a capable 4k console with strong VR capabilities - potentially even the ability to run two VR sets off one console which would be absolutely epic for a whole heap of reasons.

We are looking at the final iteration of GCN on 7nm. They have always had the ability to produce a chip at this level.
 
Honestly, I'd be surprised if it was only as good as V56. I'd definitely look for V64, though that's a bit overly optimistic considering the power constraints usually placed on these consoles. I mean, X1X is already = RX 590ish. Where can it go but up, and what's up besides V56? If you think about it even with a V56 it'd be no easy feat to use that for 4K 60.
 
Btw has anyone seen the PS5 leaked presentation and specs? :D
If 11.2Tflop 7nm Navi is the next console GPU, what we would have on PC?
(other specs : hardware ray tracing, Zen2 6c/12t, support for new PSVR2)


Good question and equally good answer - by the looks of it, Jen will decide, AMD will sleep, so the real answer is - nothing.
Have you noticed that they didn't mention anything the previous day during the presentation?


Honestly, I'd be surprised if it was only as good as V56. I'd definitely look for V64, though that's a bit overly optimistic considering the power constraints usually placed on these consoles. I mean, X1X is already = RX 590ish. Where can it go but up, and what's up besides V56? If you think about it even with a V56 it'd be no easy feat to use that for 4K 60.

X1X is 6 TFLOPS, 11.2 TFLOPS would be close to double. Vega 64 is 55-65% faster than RX 580.

RTX2080 is only 10.1tflop

But once nVidia goes to 7nm, it will easily go up to 20 TFLOPS, too.
 
Good question and equally good answer - by the looks of it, Jen will decide, AMD will sleep, so the real answer is - nothing.
Have you noticed that they didn't mention anything the previous day during the presentation?




X1X is 6 TFLOPS, 11.2 TFLOPS would be close to double. Vega 64 is 55-65% faster than RX 580.



But once nVidia goes to 7nm, it will easily go up to 20 TFLOPS, too.

It would be one hell of a gaming machine. RDR 2 easily blows away most PC games on the ps4 pro. Yea it's more like 1440p 30fps but even then it's pretty spectacular compared to anything i have played on PC of late. Xbox one X does 4k at 30fps. With a decent cpu this next gen of console is really exciting to me. The desktop part should be even faster. Console is looking better and better tbh with Nvidia's latest round and pricing.

Still i hope PC bites back as there is so much power there that just isn't used. Even with those specs the new consoles will be underpowered in comparison as faster gpu's by far should be around.
 
It would be one hell of a gaming machine. RDR 2 easily blows away most PC games on the ps4 pro. Yea it's more like 1440p 30fps but even then it's pretty spectacular compared to anything i have played on PC of late. Xbox one X does 4k at 30fps. With a decent cpu this next gen of console is really exciting to me. The desktop part should be even faster. Console is looking better and better tbh with Nvidia's latest round and pricing.

Still i hope PC bites back as there is so much power there that just isn't used. Even with those specs the new consoles will be underpowered in comparison as faster gpu's by far should be around.

PS4 pro and x1x dynamically change Res on the fly. You might play a game and only have a very small portion of it rendered at 2160.
 
Come on people, be realistic, those specs are nothing but a pipe dream and definitely fake.

Since when has any of the console makers ever put together these sort of slides this far in advance of release.

11.2 TFLops (22.4 at half precision) with 3640 stream processors that's very precise info, for a chip that hasn't even been finished yet.

Also bear in mind that the 7nm MI60 which AMD has just shown us does 14.7 TFlops but that is at 1800Mhz and 300W TDP, I know some of you love underclocking but come on, be realistic to get that down to manageable levels to be able to go inside a console and not need a massive power brick to go with it. Remember that the PS4 Pro has an internal PSU.

Don't get me wrong I would love if these specs were real, but in my opinion there isn't chance of that.
 
X1X is 6 TFLOPS, 11.2 TFLOPS would be close to double. Vega 64 is 55-65% faster than RX 580.

That's right. Again, where else could they go? They need something close to that if they are to target 4K 60 fps. And if that's not the target then what is? X1X already is 4K 30, so what's the selling point? And how's it going to be next-gen if it only bumps the X1X a little bit?


I wouldn't dispute the fact that the slides are fake and the specific information therein is also made up. I would say though that as far as performance targets, those are right on the money. As for 7nm Vega, it's a different architecture and use-case, I don't think you can glean that much from it except about 7nm scaling. Focusing on TFlops isn't particularly useful either because if you look at it like that you'll see double the increase and think omg how can that be it's too much, but then you put it into the context of each GPU and it makes me more sense. Again, they're already doing 580ish level of performance in the X1X, what are they going to next, an in-between 580 & Vega 56, and call that a next gen console? I don't think so.
 
Come on people, be realistic, those specs are nothing but a pipe dream and definitely fake.

Since when has any of the console makers ever put together these sort of slides this far in advance of release.

11.2 TFLops (22.4 at half precision) with 3640 stream processors that's very precise info, for a chip that hasn't even been finished yet.

Also bear in mind that the 7nm MI60 which AMD has just shown us does 14.7 TFlops but that is at 1800Mhz and 300W TDP, I know some of you love underclocking but come on, be realistic to get that down to manageable levels to be able to go inside a console and not need a massive power brick to go with it. Remember that the PS4 Pro has an internal PSU.

Don't get me wrong I would love if these specs were real, but in my opinion there isn't chance of that.

Based on what do you believe the chip isn't finished, it's rumoured to be launching before the end of 2019, as such it would have to be LONG since finished by now in terms of architecture, general performance. It may well not have finished taping out by this point but it would be through the process with all design choices made and finalised well over a year ago.

As for Vega, Vega was a huge heavy compute architecture. ITt has a fairly large die slice dedicated to the HBCC, it has a large memory controller for 4 stacks of HBM, it has half speed 64bit support, it has int4/8 support, all of which take up a large amount of die space.


With Vega capable of all types of compute and a relatively small die they are free to completely ignore any kind of professional compute markets for Navi and make it a purely gaming optimised architecture. Frankly it should be easy to shrink a Vega giving it only FP32/16 support, no HBCC, no 4x HBM stack memory controller, no 200Gb/s infinity links, into something probably closer to 250mm^2. Now as you may have noticed from available information, Vega 20 went with 25% higher clocks at the 'same' power, or they could have used the same clocks at half power. So what do you get with a 4096, optimised only for gaming chip that runs at 25% lower clocks than Vega 20, something with oh wait, 11TF of performance, at maybe 100-120W. Keep in mind that having shaders capable of FP64/int 4/int8 will take more power than something capable of only FP32/16 so it would already be less than 300W by some margin at the same clocks with all those transistors removed.

So it could be a what ~60mm^2 8 core Zen 2 chiplet, also downclocked for maximum efficiency, could be looking at maybe 15-20W for the chiplet, 120W for the gpu, 30-40W I/O and you have not far off the same power as a PS4 or more crucially Xbox One X.

This is the biggest problem I have with your concept of what is possible. Right now today you can get an Xbox One X with 6TF of performance using about 180W full load using 16nm chips. 6TF on 16nm... but 11.2TF on 7nm, which is one of the biggest jumps in nodes ever, is impossible?

More over the PS4 had an internal brick and used 170W or so full load, what on earth has a PS4 pro using an internal brick got to do with anything. PS4 Pro using an internal power brick doesn't mean a PS5 has to at all, but more over, if they were happy with the absurd level of noise the PS4 made and the not quite as bad but still high noise the PS4 pro makes, why would that preclude them doing it for PS5, it's a completely illogical argument.

Fact is a fairly streamlined part Polaris part Vega Scorpio which also removes most of the 'waste' compute features within Vega 10 manages 6TF on 16nm, 11.2TF from Navi on 7nm looks not only possible, but pretty easy and actually somewhat unambitious.

THe thing here is the PS4 pro was PATHETIC, in power, it runs miles below what a console on 16nm was capable of which is exactly why the Xbox One X manages to get double it's performance within a fully working semi well designed case. Doubling GPU performance on 7nm is not a major task at all. Double the Xbox One X performance on 7nm should be the bare minimum people are hoping for in reality.
 
So, from 1266 MHz on a RX 480 up to 1680 MHz on a XFX RX 590. That is 33% frequency improvement quite good.
But imagine what could have it been if they rearranged the units configuration ( I mean added some ROPs, shaders, etc.) of that poor old Polaris chip :(
Post Navi AMD are aparantly changing the whole shader design and moving away from GCN back to something that's closer to Terrascale in terms of architecture. It's a long way off but it could see AMD with more competitive consumer products.
 
AMD doesn't even need to have the best performing cards to be competitive though. They just need to not have silly prices. As we can see with the 20 series, even if it's the fastest it won't sell all that well if it's to expensive.
 
Based on what do you believe the chip isn't finished, it's rumoured to be launching before the end of 2019, as such it would have to be LONG since finished by now in terms of architecture, general performance. It may well not have finished taping out by this point but it would be through the process with all design choices made and finalised well over a year ago.

As for Vega, Vega was a huge heavy compute architecture. ITt has a fairly large die slice dedicated to the HBCC, it has a large memory controller for 4 stacks of HBM, it has half speed 64bit support, it has int4/8 support, all of which take up a large amount of die space.


With Vega capable of all types of compute and a relatively small die they are free to completely ignore any kind of professional compute markets for Navi and make it a purely gaming optimised architecture. Frankly it should be easy to shrink a Vega giving it only FP32/16 support, no HBCC, no 4x HBM stack memory controller, no 200Gb/s infinity links, into something probably closer to 250mm^2. Now as you may have noticed from available information, Vega 20 went with 25% higher clocks at the 'same' power, or they could have used the same clocks at half power. So what do you get with a 4096, optimised only for gaming chip that runs at 25% lower clocks than Vega 20, something with oh wait, 11TF of performance, at maybe 100-120W. Keep in mind that having shaders capable of FP64/int 4/int8 will take more power than something capable of only FP32/16 so it would already be less than 300W by some margin at the same clocks with all those transistors removed.

So it could be a what ~60mm^2 8 core Zen 2 chiplet, also downclocked for maximum efficiency, could be looking at maybe 15-20W for the chiplet, 120W for the gpu, 30-40W I/O and you have not far off the same power as a PS4 or more crucially Xbox One X.

This is the biggest problem I have with your concept of what is possible. Right now today you can get an Xbox One X with 6TF of performance using about 180W full load using 16nm chips. 6TF on 16nm... but 11.2TF on 7nm, which is one of the biggest jumps in nodes ever, is impossible?

More over the PS4 had an internal brick and used 170W or so full load, what on earth has a PS4 pro using an internal brick got to do with anything. PS4 Pro using an internal power brick doesn't mean a PS5 has to at all, but more over, if they were happy with the absurd level of noise the PS4 made and the not quite as bad but still high noise the PS4 pro makes, why would that preclude them doing it for PS5, it's a completely illogical argument.

Fact is a fairly streamlined part Polaris part Vega Scorpio which also removes most of the 'waste' compute features within Vega 10 manages 6TF on 16nm, 11.2TF from Navi on 7nm looks not only possible, but pretty easy and actually somewhat unambitious.

THe thing here is the PS4 pro was PATHETIC, in power, it runs miles below what a console on 16nm was capable of which is exactly why the Xbox One X manages to get double it's performance within a fully working semi well designed case. Doubling GPU performance on 7nm is not a major task at all. Double the Xbox One X performance on 7nm should be the bare minimum people are hoping for in reality.



Ok simple yes or no question, Do you believe the PS5 specs?

With all AMD's wizardry they have shown us, they have managed to get about a 30% increase in performance from their first 7nm chip and yes I know it is only a Vega. so that is 30% from the die shrink. Now to get to 11.2 TFlops with a 7nm Navi chip, is it possible, well of course it is, but is it possible and still be sensible enough to fit inside a console, nah not going to happen.

This of course is all based on my own perspective and what AMD have shown us so far.

It could all be nonsense, but its my opinion.
 
AMD doesn't even need to have the best performing cards to be competitive though. They just need to not have silly prices. As we can see with the 20 series, even if it's the fastest it won't sell all that well if it's to expensive.

I agree with this, AMD should keep doing what it is doing. If it stumbles upon a halo card that beats NV, great, but it should not be their focus. There's more money and less hassle a little lower down the tree for people to pair with their excllent Value for money Ryzen chips. Look at the current situation, what are people waiting really for? Ryzen2 and AMD 7nm cards.
 
Ok simple yes or no question, Do you believe the PS5 specs?

With all AMD's wizardry they have shown us, they have managed to get about a 30% increase in performance from their first 7nm chip and yes I know it is only a Vega. so that is 30% from the die shrink. Now to get to 11.2 TFlops with a 7nm Navi chip, is it possible, well of course it is, but is it possible and still be sensible enough to fit inside a console, nah not going to happen.

This of course is all based on my own perspective and what AMD have shown us so far.

It could all be nonsense, but its my opinion.

I don't know what the performance will be like, but, they are still two years away. You could have an APU using Zen 3 and the second generation of Navi by that stage.
 
You should really look up the presentations on Vega 20, AMD are stating pretty much 50-500% increase in performance depending on the task. It's a compete machine, the raw TF was never the key metric for Vega 20, more over GCN appears to be limited to 4096 shaders so the raw TF's wasn't going to increase much beyond that. Despite being a gpu built massively for compute it's still only 331mm^2. Remember that usually you're wanting an 80% uplift in performance when you stick to the SAME die size as last gen, not when you reduce it massively.

GOing from a maybe 250mm^2 gpu on 14nm to a 250mm^2 Navi on 7nm, what would you expect the performance uplift to be?

You're comparing against a chip that has a HUGE amount of die space dedicated to compute, a card that isn't close to optimised for gaming and a die that shrunk by over 30%.

Believe those specific specs, maybe, iirc the Xbox Scorpio specs leaked pretty early as maybe they pushed to get devs on board for pushing 4k/more options sooner for better support.

I think if Sony wants a PS5, which they should because the PS4 pro is woefully underpowered, then double the power of the 14nm Xbox One X is where they want to be on 7nm.
 
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