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AMD Bulldozer Finally!

MMM not sure if I can wait any longer - Sandybridge is drawing me in

if they were ultra confident in performance why not release benchmarks now ? I'd wait if I knew it was genuinely going to be worth the wait
 
rypt said:
Why not just admit that AMD are incapable of delivering a chip as good as Intel?
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Oh, so true. But have to consider also the fact that AMD uses only about 20% of the money in cpu reseach and production process compared to Intel. So they should be better in every way.

Still the AMD processors are good enough for me. Cant wait for Bulldozers to arrive :rolleyes:
 
rypt said:
I find this funny.

You have Final8y trying to find any way possible to say that AMD does not suck now, going as far as to say "ignore the benches, they don't represent anything".

Why not just admit that AMD are incapable of delivering a chip as good as Intel?
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Your wrong on all counts.

Because in not ignoring the benches at all & your totally lack of understanding my point about the benches because I'm not making any conclusions on any single bench that the code base is rarely or not used at all in modern day programs & games.
On average the AMD Llano is going to be slower in CPU intensive tasks, everyone knows but i would not worry at all about its performance on a specific rendering bench when the market its aimed at is not a rendering farm.

There are many types of efficient multi threading which depends on the task its been used for & if you think that there is only one efficient way & that its good for all tasks & they all scales linearly across different architectures then you have allot to learn & is no better than going by 3D Mark & concluding that a gfx card will run all games better than the other gfx card of a different architecture because it won in 3D Mark or judging a CPUs over all performance on different architecture based on SuperPI outcome .

Even games running on the same gfx engine but from different developers can perform vastly different to one another even though visually on the same level & a good example is the COD series.

You must be to young to remember when AMD was in the lead performance wise as that is the only plausible reason that i can think of you not knowing that, as far as AMD being able to take the perform crown from Intel at this present time & near future very unlikely but i was not making such claims in the first place & that was nothing more than you trying to put words into my mouth .

Last point the suck is a matter of opinion & most opinions is that Llano is far from sucks for the market its aimed at.
 
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Final8y said:
Your wrong on all counts.

Because in not ignoring the benches at all & your totally lack of understanding my point about the benches because I'm not making any conclusions on any single bench that the code base is rarely or not used atall in modern day programs & games.
On average the AMD Llano is going to be slower in CPU intensive tasks, everyone knows but i would not worry at all about its performance on a specific rendering bench when the market its aimed at is not a rendering farm.

There are many types of efficient multi threading which depends on the task its been used for & if you think that there is only one efficient way & that its good for all tasks & they all scales linearly across different architectures then you have allot to learn & is no better than going by 3D Mark & concluding that a gfx card will run all games better than the other gfx card of a different architecture because it won in 3D Mark or judging a CPUs different architecture on SuperPI .

Even games running on the gfx engine but from different developers can perform vastly different to one another even though visually on the same level & a good example is the COD series.

You must be to young to remember when AMD was in the lead performance wise as that is the only plausible reason that i can think of you not knowing that, as far as AMD being able to take the perform crown from Intel at this present time & near future very unlikely but i was not making such claims in the first place & that was nothing more than you trying to put words into my mouth .

Last point the suck is a matter of opinion & most opinions is that Llano is far from sucks for the market its aimed at.
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but i thought benchmark testing was 100% the way to show your pc is the worlds greatest and will run every game under the sun on max settings:rolleyes:

i cant see why soo many miss your points. the Llano is not and never has been marketed as a cpu that will do everything amazingly, its just not. its about delivering a decent chip that has good onboard gfx that runs at low power. or am i now missing the point?
 
paradisiac said:
1)but i thought benchmark testing was 100% the way to show your pc is the worlds greatest and will run every game under the sun on max settings:rolleyes:

i cant see why soo many miss your points. the Llano is not and never has been marketed as a cpu that will do everything amazingly, its just not. its about delivering a decent chip that has good onboard gfx that runs at low power. or am i now missing the point?
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LOL i have a £5000 PC [Sig needs updating] with 2 of the world fastest 5970s & i have only run one Demo bench AVP to see if it scales past dual GPU, i'm just not really interested in running benches out side of tweaking reasons & i have not even done any bench performance tweaking with this set-up because its already doing well with everything i throw at it & i would rather spend my time using it than tweaking, maybe when i move it into the new case & new water cooling i may then try to max tweak it for the hell of it.

The most importance is how good is at doing the things that most people do in the market its aimed at & benches should use those games & real programs to bench with & what real difference they would notice.

The problem is that discussing anything on a enthusiasts forum that is not aimed at the enthusiasts always runs the risk of anything that is not first place or by the market leader is rubbish because they cant get there head out of the enthusiast for even a moment no matter how close the 2nd place is to the leader in a given sector, its not good but this is better but this is good & that suck mentality which is not constructive at all, if that all that matters to them then fine but its no good to bring that with you to every discussion because the outcome will already be the same as well all know what's in the lead & we are not all here to only discus that.
 
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and just to prove the point on how true benchmarks are these 2 tests were run on the same day, same setup, just 1 had stock settings and 1 was unlocked to 3 cores @ 3.7GHz

Stock
Heaven25Stock.png


Overclocked
Heaven25OC.png


good to see a 3.2GHz dual core outperforms a 3.7GHz Tri-Core. all those losers that OC, suckers!!!!

so, in reality, benchmarks mean nothing.
 
paradisiac said:
and just to prove the point on how true benchmarks are these 2 tests were run on the same day, same setup, just 1 had stock settings and 1 was unlocked to 3 cores @ 3.7GHz



good to see a 3.2GHz dual core outperforms a 3.7GHz Tri-Core. all those losers that OC, suckers!!!!

so, in reality, benchmarks mean nothing.
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LOL
Benchmarks of real programs & games is what counts.
 
Final8y said:
Benchmarks of real programs & games is what counts.
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but you cannot really compare a cpu on a benchmark, unless you are going to buy all the same equiptment used in the benchmark can you? there must be other factors that affect certain results, like ram speed, gfx etc so i can get it to for general comparisions, but it can only be used as a roungh guide surely?
 
paradisiac said:
but you cannot really compare a cpu on a benchmark, unless you are going to buy all the same equiptment used in the benchmark can you? there must be other factors that affect certain results, like ram speed, gfx etc so i can get it to for general comparisions, but it can only be used as a roungh guide surely?
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There are other factors to consider when things are close so that's why you look at many reviews to get the full picture & overall difference.

When i look at reviews i always skip right past all the synthetics & look at the real games & applications.
 
Final8y said:
There are other factors to consider when thing are close so that's why you look at many reviews to get the full picture & overall difference.

When i look at reviews i always keep right past all the synthetics & look at the real games & applications.
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lol i tend to just buy. dont know when i purchased based on a review as some people could be biased and make the results favour one over the others.
dont get me wrong, whenever i buy something i generally bench test it, just to see what its like compared to my other stuff, but like with the stock vs oc heaven results i never take it too seriously.

for all we know, the companies releasing the reviews for the Llano chips could be anti AMD and therefore picking out results from multiple tests the ones that make intel look amazing. or they could be anti Intel and make it look like the AMD chips are overperforming.

so in conclusion, as a guide, then yeh the benchmarks are good, but basing your complete opinion on how Llano or BD will be on a few tests is a tad naive.
 
paradisiac said:
lol i tend to just buy. dont know when i purchased based on a review as some people could be biased and make the results favour one over the others.
dont get me wrong, whenever i buy something i generally bench test it, just to see what its like compared to my other stuff, but like with the stock vs oc heaven results i never take it too seriously.

for all we know, the companies releasing the reviews for the Llano chips could be anti AMD and therefore picking out results from multiple tests the ones that make intel look amazing. or they could be anti Intel and make it look like the AMD chips are overperforming.

so in conclusion, as a guide, then yeh the benchmarks are good, but basing your complete opinion on how Llano or BD will be on a few tests is a tad naive.
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At this stage yes as far as BD goes.

My interest is how well BD will perform over what i have got.
 
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Final8y said:
Your wrong on all counts.

Because in not ignoring the benches at all & your totally lack of understanding my point about the benches because I'm not making any conclusions on any single bench that the code base is rarely or not used at all in modern day programs & games.
On average the AMD Llano is going to be slower in CPU intensive tasks, everyone knows but i would not worry at all about its performance on a specific rendering bench when the market its aimed at is not a rendering farm.

There are many types of efficient multi threading which depends on the task its been used for & if you think that there is only one efficient way & that its good for all tasks & they all scales linearly across different architectures then you have allot to learn & is no better than going by 3D Mark & concluding that a gfx card will run all games better than the other gfx card of a different architecture because it won in 3D Mark or judging a CPUs over all performance on different architecture based on SuperPI outcome .

Even games running on the same gfx engine but from different developers can perform vastly different to one another even though visually on the same level & a good example is the COD series.

You must be to young to remember when AMD was in the lead performance wise as that is the only plausible reason that i can think of you not knowing that, as far as AMD being able to take the perform crown from Intel at this present time & near future very unlikely but i was not making such claims in the first place & that was nothing more than you trying to put words into my mouth .

Last point the suck is a matter of opinion & most opinions is that Llano is far from sucks for the market its aimed at.
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Ultimate power is ultimate power, if something is more powerful then it means it is more powerful.

Making excuses saying "it's not meant for that use" is just that an excuse
 
rypt said:
Ultimate power is ultimate power, if something is more powerful then it means it is more powerful.

Making excuses saying "it's not meant for that use" is just that an excuse
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Yes if something is more powerful then its more powerful & no one is calming otherwise & is more putting words in mouth by you again & your post proves my point perfectly that you don't understand the segment & cant think out side of the enthusiasts ultimate power view on everything even when its clear Intel is not ultimate power in inbuilt gfx.
 
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rypt said:
Ultimate power is ultimate power, if something is more powerful then it means it is more powerful.

Making excuses saying "it's not meant for that use" is just that an excuse
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so why do courriers and pizza delivery guys and all not drive round in bugatti veyrons? these are more powerful than their vehicles so therefore they could do more jobs in a day?

if something is designed for a specific purpose, then it doesnt matter what else is available on the market that wasnt designed for that purpose. you have to do a like for like comparison, the Llano is designed to be low powered and do a set job, not be a raw power cpu. just like courriers and pizza delivery people will use motorbikes as its more practical for its purpose over a stupidly fast car.

its more like you are trying to find excuses to write off a cpu that isnt even out yet by comparing it to a cpu that was designed for someting completly different.
 
paradisiac said:
so why do courriers and pizza delivery guys and all not drive round in bugatti veyrons? these are more powerful than their vehicles so therefore they could do more jobs in a day?

if something is designed for a specific purpose, then it doesnt matter what else is available on the market that wasnt designed for that purpose. you have to do a like for like comparison, the Llano is designed to be low powered and do a set job, not be a raw power cpu. just like courriers and pizza delivery people will use motorbikes as its more practical for its purpose over a stupidly fast car.

its more like you are trying to find excuses to write off a cpu that isnt even out yet by comparing it to a cpu that was designed for someting completly different.
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Any lesser Lawn Mower Sucks no matter what size of garden.
 
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Final8y said:
Yes if something is more powerful then its more powerful & no one is calming otherwise & is more putting words in mouth by you again & your post proves my point perfectly that you don't understand the segment & cant think out side of the enthusiasts ultimate power view on everything even when its clear Intel is not ultimate power in inbuilt gfx.
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built in GFX is a joke compared to dedicated GFX though
 
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