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AMD Bulldozer Finally!

Associate
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AM3 Cpus will work in AM3+ boards, but AM3+ cpu will not work in AM3 boards, thought this had been common knowledge for an age?
The AM3+ socket is backwards compatible with AM3, AMD even announced this themselves around end of october last year.

Dave.
 
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Soldato
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AM3 Cpus will work in AM3+ boards, but AM3+ cpu will not work in AM3 boards, thought this had been common knowledge for an age?
The AM3+ socket is backwards compatible with AM3, AMD even announced this themselves around end of october last year.

Dave.

He's right, AMD themselves confirmed this a few months ago. I thought everyone would know by now :p.
 
Soldato
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Correct. Any AM3 CPU will apparently drop into an AM3+ board.

Will make building a cheap AM3+ rig very attractive, bearing in mind future upgrade potential.
 
Soldato
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Was going to upgrade to either Sandy Bridge or Phenom X6 but in light of the recent Sandy Bridge problems, and Bulldozer only being round the corner, I think I should definitely wait and consider the Bulldozer route now. Seems stupid (in my position) to not wait a little longer!
 
Soldato
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Great news indeed.

BTW i found this link while surfing around.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/ivy-bri...rmance-advantage-over-sandy-bridge/11061.html

They claim that Intel's IB will only 20% more performance than SB...if thats true AMD may actually have a shot at the performance crown.
The article doesn't list specifics and I find it difficult to believe Ivy Bridge will be 20% faster than Sandy Bridge when Sandy Bridge is only 15% faster than Nehalem despite being a whole new architecture! Ivy Bridge is just a die shrink (which should make it cheaper and cooler, so overclocking potential might increase). They'll almost certainly beef up the IGP and probably add some new instructions and performance tweaks but 20%? 5-10% is more likely IMO.
 
Caporegime
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The article doesn't list specifics and I find it difficult to believe Ivy Bridge will be 20% faster than Sandy Bridge when Sandy Bridge is only 15% faster than Nehalem despite being a whole new architecture! Ivy Bridge is just a die shrink (which should make it cheaper and cooler, so overclocking potential might increase). They'll almost certainly beef up the IGP and probably add some new instructions and performance tweaks but 20%? 5-10% is more likely IMO.

Well remember 10-15% of that might be higher clock speeds, early rumours = stupid though, when you don't know architecture and one random site starts making rumours.

I'm not expecting a hugely new architecture, I can never remember which is which, tick or tock, we've had a new architecture on 32nm, the next ti-ock is a die shrink which is what Ivy is. Give it a 10% clock speed bump that will be the majority of the real changes with it. THey have more tweaking to do than normal with the ring bus, IGP and internal controller than most generations so I'm sure they can do a few small things along with the shrink.
 
Associate
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SuperPi
Can anyone take a guess at what kind of SuperPi 1M can be expected with Bulldozer?

This is the key metric for me as the database software I use is single thread. Thus whatever produces the highest SuperPi is what I would tend to go for.

Really impressed with the figures for SB @ 4.7 but will BD be able to trump it either at stock or O/C'd?

Memory Bandwidth
What about memory bandwidth? Is this also likely to be higher than SB?

It's the bi-annual time again where I upgrade the database PC. Currently have Phenom 3.0 @ 3.7, 1066 Ram and it's fast enough. But these SB speeds are insane and could halve processing time.

If there was no problem with the motherboards I would go back to Intel after 10 years of AMD and choose SB. But bulldozer seems so tempting ...
 
Associate
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Was going to upgrade to either Sandy Bridge or Phenom X6 but in light of the recent Sandy Bridge problems, and Bulldozer only being round the corner, I think I should definitely wait and consider the Bulldozer route now. Seems stupid (in my position) to not wait a little longer!
Exactly same possition mate, I'm going to wait too but it's killng me.
 
Soldato
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don't think there is much point in comparing Sandy Bridge with Bulldozer in SuperPI, since the whole Bulldozer approach is sort of like 'multiply and conquer', its designed for very good multi-threaded performance, nobody has any real idea what to expect in a single-threaded application. all depends on what they've done to improve it from K10.5, never biggest fan of SuperPI since it only gives you a benchmark of how fast 'an' actual core is, rather than how fast your processor as a whole is, Q6660 and E6600 for example will both give very very similar times, because at the end of the day a Q6600 is just two E6600 strapped together, nothing else has changed, yet the Q6600 is a lot faster in multi-threaded applications. question, if your only interested in single-threaded applications, why not get a cheapish i3 or the likes and overclock the nuts of it, should give decent SuperPI times..? :confused:

also, very much looking forward to seeing what they can do, as im intending on switching from my ageing Q6600 very shortly and Bulldozer is my preferred route at the moment..!

Edit: as for guessing Bulldozer SuperPI times, would hazard a guess at whatever a Phenom II gets, then improve it by another ~10% and might give a decent indication, total guess though!
 
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Associate
OP
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Keep in mind its likely that AMD will have EIGHT core Bulldozers for around or maybe even less than a 2600k, thats fully overclockable, on a vastly cheaper(and working :p ) mobo, that will have a 3.5-3.8Ghz stock clock speed, that can do turbo on ALL cores at 500Mhz, meaning most load will have the whole chip at 4-4.3Ghz without overclocking, and it can go significantly further still with less than all the cores loaded, potentially 4.5-4.8Ghz with 1-2 cores loaded, at stock.

Overclocking should be godly, gate first IS better than gate last, but gives lower yields, bad for AMD, the chips that work will be better though. Its got a slightly longer pipeline so the design lends itself to MUCH higher clockspeeds than Phenom's do.

But the main point here is, no one knows what Bulldozer bits will be seen at Cebit, so its not worth talking up into crazyness yet.

Firstly its VERY common for companies to show only reporters, or bigwigs in the industry new parts behind closed doors. Cebit has a public and a private side to it, some products are on show for everyone, some are behind closed doors NDA covered briefings only.

All we know is Bulldozer should be at Cebit, we have no clue if a single Bulldozer piece of information will end up shown to the general public. We have no idea if there will be benchmarks and we have no idea if anyone will get to use a system with one in.


As for the 50% stuff, its SO vague and we don't know really know what its in with a lot of fake slides about.

AFAIK the 50% thing was said AGES ago and was first mentioned in regard to the server space, where switching out a 8 core server chip would beat a server chip by 50% quite comftably as a drop in replacement. Server loads vs home use loads can be incredibly different.


Gate-last and gate-first refer to the point at which a transistor's gate is put onto a CPU-production wafer. Previously, CPU transistors featured a silicon gate and a silicon dioxide insulator.

However, in order to combat the problems with current leakage as silicon gets thinner, most fabrication firms have now replaced the silicon-based parts with a metal gate and a high-k insulator made from a material such as Hafnium. This means that the fabrication company has to choose whether the metal gate electrode is dropped onto the wafer before or after the high-temperature heating process.

Gate-last is superior, because it provides a better choice of transistors for higher performance, which could crudely translated into better overclocking potential, as well as lower leakage. Gate last on the otherhand is more expensive as it can produce more failed fabs. Intel have been using gate last and have worked very hard to minimize losses on this process.

Read detailed info here ----> http://www.electroiq.com/index/disp...res/high-k_metal-gate/integrating-high-k.html
 
Soldato
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Was going to upgrade to either Sandy Bridge or Phenom X6 but in light of the recent Sandy Bridge problems, and Bulldozer only being round the corner, I think I should definitely wait and consider the Bulldozer route now. Seems stupid (in my position) to not wait a little longer!

What was the sandy bridge issue ? I was plaing on getting an SB for my new build but if they have issues maybe I'll scrap that idea and go for a phenom x6 of the 4 core black edition AMD ?
 
Soldato
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they will proberly just show the mobos next month and thats all and perhaps just a few benchies if were lucky, I still get the feeling if AMDs BD is really good they would show more benchies/previews showing it against the SB...

Anyway will wait till Summer for Intel to clean themselves up and for AMD to release there 8 core cpu, hopefully its arriving to compete against intels falls offering since no ones gonna be able to afford an intel 8 core cpu anyhow :)
 
Soldato
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When is Bulldozer expected to be released to public roughly? Are we talking before April? They need to get this out asap to claw back market share over Intel while they suffer the Sandy Bridge issues. I'm not a fanboy of either brand, I just want to see good competition which is healthy for the consumer. It would also be nice to see the "underdog" come back into the hearts of Overclockers and PC enthusiasts again. AMD once put up a very competitive fight during the single core era for a period of time.
 
Associate
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When is Bulldozer expected to be released to public roughly? Are we talking before April? They need to get this out asap to claw back market share over Intel while they suffer the Sandy Bridge issues. I'm not a fanboy of either brand, I just want to see good competition which is healthy for the consumer. It would also be nice to see the "underdog" come back into the hearts of Overclockers and PC enthusiasts again. AMD once put up a very competitive fight during the single core era for a period of time.

May at the earliest, more likely to be june.
 
Associate
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Cannot wait to read benchmark tests on Bulldozer, hopefully will be fast as its being claimed. However I will prolly only change mobo to AM3+ but drop my 955 in then later buy the new chip
 
Associate
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Cannot wait to read benchmark tests on Bulldozer, hopefully will be fast as its being claimed. However I will prolly only change mobo to AM3+ but drop my 955 in then later buy the new chip

Me too, I just want the board first, going to splash out on a high end one
 
Soldato
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Well after the SB foul up, im going to wait for 3mths after BD launch for you lot to BETA test the Mobo's and CPU's for me..:)
 
Associate
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18 Mar 2003
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, if your only interested in single-threaded applications, why not get a cheapish i3 or the likes and overclock the nuts of it, should give decent SuperPI times..? :confused:

That's a good suggestion. Looking at some of the SuperPi benches 2500K @4.7 is roughly 8s, i3 540 @4.4 9.5s.

The i3 540 is twice as quick as the Phenom rig I have now so this is a huge improvement and it looks good value. A complete bundle can be bought for less than the price of the SB cpu on it's own :)

I was concerned about buying last years tech but at that price it's a good filler for until BD has bedded in.
 
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