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AMD Bulldozer Finally!

Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
33,188
I think we'll be looking at 5Ghz+ on air, okay the 1Ghz single/dual core turbo mode isn't confirmed, just hinted at, but its hinted pretty damn strongly.

Whats almost certain is there will be an at least 3.5Ghz stock clocked model, maybe higher or maybe just there, 500Mhz turbo on ALL cores is confirmed by loads of official info now, what we didn't know was it will go higher with less cores loaded and the assumption is around 1Ghz for what most people assume is 2 cores. Why, because its in modules, it can turn off 2 cores at a time, not one, so its likely clocks on both cores need to be identical meaning minimum of 2 cores running full speed.

If stock chips are doing 4.5Ghz or so turbo mode, well, overclocking should be even higher.
 
Soldato
Joined
26 Jun 2009
Posts
3,023
Location
Sheffield
Hmmm, actually getting a little bit excited about Bulldozer now. Not enough to upgrade from my 965BE though.

I've been toying with a lot of ideas these last few days. My current CPU cooler can just about handle my 965 at 3.8ghz, so if I upgraded to an 1100t (only option for me) I'd need a new cooler too, so when you factor in the extra cabling I'd need to run the fans, it's a £300 upgrade for a small boost in performance.

If I waited for Bulldozer, I could probably keep my current cooler, which would therefore mean no extra cabling, so the £300 would probably cover a £200 CPU and a £100 motherboard fairly easily, and it'd be faster and overclock further. Then I could sell my current board and CPU and get some money back.

I've decided however to just run this rig until it's all out of date and knackered. I've got it to a stage now where everything is balanced, there aren't really any bottle necks, it runs fairly cool and quiet, and it's easily fast enough for what I want/need. The only upgrades I think are worth doing to it would be to get another 4gb of ram and an SSD, so I don't think I'll be going Bulldozer, I'll be skipping it and waiting for the next architecture to come along. I'm guessing that may well be when DDR4 comes out?
 
Soldato
Joined
18 May 2010
Posts
22,483
Location
London
Im currently running a QX9650 at 3.7Ghz..... even tho I have the money to upgrade to a SB or Bulldozer, coupled with my 5870.... its probably not really going to improve my gaming performance much is it?

I guess it all depends on the future titles.... if they are all multicore optimized as in 6 cores + then it would be a worth while upgrade.

Only a few days ago, I was thinking that in all honesty my computer will happily game untill 2013 when Windows 8 is rumoured to be appearing...
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
33,188
People get too lost in buzzwords and sales gibberish.

Loads of games like to say optimised for multicore, because it sounds like you're getting more for your money, like they've made an effort to make the game more complex to use a quad core.

99% of the games that are optimised for quad core, will just use a 25% load on 4 cores, instead of a 50% load on 2 cores, or 100% on one core. THeres a difference between being ABLE to use multiple threads(which is incredibly easy) and NEEDING to use multiple threads. Its easy to use multiple threads as there were always multiple threads essentially, packaged into one easy to use .exe that did them all in one go.

Separate sound, physics, ai, gfx driver and a few other things into separate threads and its easy to push a little of the load across cores, spliting a single thread, like the main game engine across more threads is more difficult but more and more doable.

Theres no need, especially for gaming, for anything other than a midrange quad core.

Its very hard to predict exact performance. Core 2 architecture in general was a 4 issue interger core, that uses hyperthreading to "fill up" the 4 issues each clock because most threads don't use all 4 issues, the few that do, like Superpi, are usually incredibly basic so not that representative of real world performance.

Phenom is a 3 issue core, but apparently rarely uses all 3 well, Bulldozer is moving to a 2 issue core, but a much more streamlined and inteligent 2 issue core with vastly better thread prediction, their 2 issue core should be noticeably faster on a single thread(the vast majority of them) than the older 3 issue core but will it match best case scenario of the Intel 4 issue core, probably not. However across the "two cores" in a module you have essential 2x 2 issue cores, but that are always available. Multithreading it should honestly spank Sandybridge at similar prices, single threads are almost certainly going to depend on the thread. I'd expect something like Superpi to not improve, but more real world loads to get MUCH closer to Sandybridge than Phenom 2 is.

How much, who knows, it will vary depending on what kind of application most likely.

Technology wise its very interesting, its will be a leap forwards, not least because of the design, they've pushed a 8 core die into the space of an old 4 core die(give or take). Meaning they can sell an 8 core chip at the same cost as a current 4 core chip. Thats a huge improvement right there in terms of what the customer gets for their money.

But to be honest, and I've said this for a year, while Bulldozer was worth waiting for over upgrading in the past year, and a huge step forward, its ultimately a "fusion" design, just lacking the fusion part till gen 2. As Intel/AMD push gpu's on die AND push things like open cl and gpu acceleration of more and more "normal" cpu workload and more applications get acceleration, gpu on die will be the massive breakthrough in performance.

Bulldozer is set to be a great core as is, but with the IGP a year or so later, it could be epic.
 
Soldato
Joined
15 Dec 2004
Posts
5,756
Location
Hudds, UK
Has anyone noticed the current AM3 Crosshair boards have one PIN that isn't used by an X6 - or is it just me?

Can't say I noticed it on my Asus M4A89GTDPro - but sure noticed it when I was installing my CH4!.

Heres secretly hoping that Asus accidently stuck in an AM3+ socket or something lol!. I am soo not going to get rid of this board even for bulldozer for at least a couple of years - Its soooo shiny :)
 
Soldato
Joined
10 Feb 2007
Posts
3,435
Bulldozer is make or break for AMD with this being their first major "new" processor design for 8 years (everything since AMD 64 release in 2003 has been a tweak/refresh/core bolt-on etc). If Bulldozer cannot match Sandy or Ivy, AMD will be confined to low-end anonymity for another 4-8 years and I am not sure the company could survive that.

With NVidia now being more competetive in the GPU world, AMD could really feel the squeeze.

Let's hope Bulldozer allows AMD to kick some Intel ass as AMD 64 did back in 2003-2005.
 
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Soldato
Joined
7 May 2006
Posts
12,183
Location
London, Ealing
Bulldozer is make or break for AMD with this being their first major "new" processor design for 8 years (everything since AMD 64 release in 2003 has been a tweak/refresh/core bolt-on etc). If Bulldozer cannot match Sandy or Ivy, AMD will be confined to low-end anonymity for another 4-8 years and I am not sure the company could survive that.

With NVidia now being more competetive in the GPU world, AMD could really feel the squeeze.

Let's hope Bulldozer allows AMD to kick some Intel ass as AMD 64 did back in 2003-2005.

AMD don't need to be top at anything to survive..all that matters is Price/ performance & the server & home market Low-end is where the money is.

There are many far worse performers in many markets that do just fine.
 
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Soldato
Joined
9 Nov 2009
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24,914
Location
Planet Earth
AMD don't need to be top at anything to survive..all that matters is Price/ performance & the server & home market Low-end is where the money is.

There are many far worse performers in many markets that do just fine.

AMD Bobcat and Llano also means that AMD can compete much better in the netbook and laptop markets too which have been dominated by Intel.

Llano also has an HD5550 class IGP too and I suspect it will be relatively small like Bobcat.
 
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Soldato
Joined
10 Feb 2007
Posts
3,435
AMD don't need to be top at anything to survive..all that matters is Price/ performance & the server & home market Low-end is where the money is.

There are many far worse performers in many markets that do just fine.
Well, they certainly have not been top for the past 4-5 years, during which time growth and matket share has stagnated. The problem AMD have had is that Intel have recently made better processors at a lower cost (lower cost to Intel). This has meant that Intel have been able to price their more profitable chips wherever they like and AMD has had no option but to undercut them. This squeezes the profit margin.

Unless Bulldozer offers similar performance to current Intel chips, the trend will continue. AMD do not need to be faster than Intel, but they do need to be competetive, irrespective of cost. If for example Bulldozer is only slightly faster than Intels £165 2500K, there will not be too much profit to be had.
 
Soldato
Joined
9 Nov 2009
Posts
24,914
Location
Planet Earth
AMD already have released Bobcat for netbooks,low end laptops and embedded systems. The AMD E350 has a faster CPU and IGP than the Atom D525 and is only 75MM2 in size whereas the D525 is 87MM2.

Llano is based on the Athlon II X4 but with additional tweaks meaning it will be faster. Since it will be built using a 32NM process the CPU cores will end up smaller and it also has an HD5550 class IGP.

The current 45NM Athlon II X4 is around 169MM2 and the 40NM Redwood GPU used in the HD5670 and HD5550 is around 104MM2. The 55NM HD4250 IGP found in many budget AMD motherboards is around 73MM2.

This means Llano will be probably smaller than the current Phenom II X4 and probably faster too. Considering that the motherboards for Llano will need no IGP anymore this means many of them will be cheaper to make.

Also,Llano will probably consume less power than the current 45NM AMD mobile processors meaning AMD will be able to compete much better in the laptop market which is expanding.
 
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Soldato
Joined
7 May 2006
Posts
12,183
Location
London, Ealing
1)Well, they certainly have not been top for the past 4-5 years, during which time growth and matket share has stagnated. The problem AMD have had is that Intel have recently made better processors at a lower cost (lower cost to Intel). This has meant that Intel have been able to price their more profitable chips wherever they like and AMD has had no option but to undercut them. This squeezes the profit margin.

2)Unless Bulldozer offers similar performance to current Intel chips, the trend will continue. AMD do not need to be faster than Intel, but they do need to be competetive, irrespective of cost. If for example Bulldozer is only slightly faster than Intels £165 2500K, there will not be too much profit to be had.

1) Stagnated in a recession is no surprise but still they made headway while having a less performing chips since core 2 & which also had a bigger performance gap too.

2) There is nothing wrong with the trend & if AMD were not competitive they would not be here as they are more competitive now than they were before & cost is always a factor in the mainstream & most PCs will not have any £165 CPUs in them.
 
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Soldato
Joined
22 Mar 2008
Posts
11,753
Location
London
Is there a rough timeframe for when the actual consumer chips will be out?

My trusted C2D has finally give up the ghost :( so I may live on a very old AM2 system until this is out :D
 
Associate
Joined
1 Sep 2010
Posts
1,252
Location
Bristol, South West
i cant wait to see if it smashes intel into pieces. doubtful, but possible. amd know they gotta pull sumthing out the bag, and if they dont, we will all payer higher prices cos intel will have no competition
 
Associate
Joined
1 May 2007
Posts
1,901
Location
London
Wanted to spank some money on a SB setup this week, but with recent developments and this impending news release, I'm probably going to have to sit it out another couple of weeks.

Im most interested to see if the on board GPU will give instant xfire boosts if paired with a dedicated AMD GPU
 
Associate
Joined
14 Feb 2008
Posts
1,191
Im most interested to see if the on board GPU will give instant xfire boosts if paired with a dedicated AMD GPU

Same here, got a 6970 and interested in how it will work with a Bulldozer setup, I want to upgrade my Q9550 with a 4 module/eight-core Bulldozer CPU.
 
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