AMD Carrizo APU Massive Leak – 40W TDP, Excavator Cores, 512 SP and Assorted Benchmarks

Emlyn_Dewar · 5 Jun 2015 at 13:48

7870K is just the "improved" Kaveri though, running old everything.

Interested in how Carrizo does, against mobile broadwell parts.

humbug · 5 Jun 2015 at 13:56

Emlyn_Dewar said:
7870K is just the "improved" Kaveri though, running old everything.

Interested in how Carrizo does, against mobile broadwell parts.

I think this at 35 Watts is as fast as the 95 Watt 7870K, tho i could be wrong?

Intels part in Anads link draws nearly twice the power of this APU, its not really a fair comparison, i think its pretty damned good for a mobile part at around HD 7750 performance.

Boomstick777 · 5 Jun 2015 at 13:56

Emlyn_Dewar said:
7870K is just the "improved" Kaveri though, running old everything.

Interested in how Carrizo does, against mobile broadwell parts.

Yeah Carrizo is more interesting, 7870K is just more Kaveri, very mediocre chip at mediocre price. I'm sure they have there niche use, but these aren't the APU's that can grab gamers attention. We will probably have to wait another year or two for Zen / HBM / APU for proper gaming to be feasible.

humbug · 5 Jun 2015 at 14:00

Hey Boom, it looks like AMD have found a massive performance per Watt increase in their GPU's

Davedree · 5 Jun 2015 at 18:30

Boomstick777 said:
AMD Carrizo Benchmarks Leaked – Double The Performance of Kaveri

Read more: http://wccftech.com/amd-carrizo-graphics-benchmarks-leaked-double-performance-kaveri/#ixzz3PDmNjDoM

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AMD Roadmap Update: Kaveri Refresh Landing this Year, Carrizo Might Come to Desktop in BGA

Read more: http://wccftech.com/kaveri-refresh-landing-carrizo-bga-desktop/#ixzz3PDmYBnm5

humbug said:
The A10 7850K scores around 270 Mpix/s while Intel’s HD5200 Iris Pro scores a more modest 200 Mpix/s. Carriso scores here over 600 Mpix/s which suggests that Carrizo is more than twice as fast as Kaveri and three times faster than Iris Pro.
To put this into perspective this is what an R7 265 graphics card scores, a card that offers the same graphics performance inside the Playstation 4.

Ok, wow, if thats true colour me impressed, very impressed.

But what about the CPU?

Davedree said:
Deja vu,
don't be fooled again by sisoftware rumours again, please Humbug.
We might aswell copy everything from this thread below and paste it into this thread renaming it to Carrizo.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=24982686

humbug said:
That's HSA, it's quite a different thing. And that performance does translate, see spoiler.

Besides that ^^^^^^, this is about Pixel Fill Rate, the GPU's horse power.

humbug said:
Thats pretty good for a 35 Watt APU, now we need to see how it compares to the 65 Watt i5 5675C in Boom's link

humbug said:
I think this at 35 Watts is as fast as the 95 Watt 7870K, tho i could be wrong?

Intels part in Anads link draws nearly twice the power of this APU, its not really a fair comparison, i think its pretty damned good for a mobile part at around HD 7750 performance.

Oh i thought you said that performance does translate earlier in the thread Humbug, so i just added it here to save you looking.
Can't see the performance there and we certainly shouldn't be judging its capabilities at 720p on 3d mark scores.

There's a few things impressive about Carrizo, the apu's performance relative to its power envelope is impressive. Also the apu has a uvd 6 engine which is fantastic for htpc and superior to Tonga too, This is the problem with the kaveri refresh as it still uses the inferior uvd 4.2 engine, I believe.
Intel cannot compete with Iris Pro 6100 at the same power envelope as Carrizo, so broadwell mobile is inferior. Desktop Iris Pro 6200 looks to have slightly stronger 1080p performance however it uses more power.
It's great that Intel are finally forcing Amd to improve in their apu graphics performance as for 2 years on the trot Intel have held the crown for the better Igp. Cost aside let's see how skylake's gt4e performs.

Carrizo is perfectly balanced for a mobile laptop chip, The Igp is not 7750 ddr3 let alone 7750 gddr5 performance, I think it's similar to r7 250 which is a ddr3/gddr5 384 shader desktop card. But for 35w it's still an impressive package but lacking 1080p drive.

So far 3dmark11 scores which aren't representative of true gaming show roughly the following from what I've seen, but not tested my self.

Carrizo Mobile = 1600/2750
Kaveri Desktop A10 7850/70k =2350/3200
Kaveri Mobile = 2100
Intel Broadwell desktop 6200 edram = 3000
Intel Broadwell Mobile 6100 = 1700

humbug · 5 Jun 2015 at 18:33

So we need some proper apples to apples benchmarks ^^^^, hopefully someone will do it.

Davedree · 5 Jun 2015 at 18:40

humbug said:
So we need some proper apples to apples benchmarks ^^^^, hopefully someone will do it.

agreed but I really am impressed with Carrizo I hope I can buy one

humbug · 5 Jun 2015 at 18:48

Davedree said:
agreed but I really am impressed with Carrizo I hope I can buy one

I hope all this good and wholesome stuff has found its way into the 300 and Fury series discrete GPU's.

They should be cracking cards if it has.

Davedree · 5 Jun 2015 at 19:49

humbug said:
I hope all this good and wholesome stuff has found its way into the 300 and Fury series discrete GPU's.

They should be cracking cards if it has.

I hope so fella, there's been such much talk and a long wait, I'd like to see Amd putting out decent offerings as they have with Carrizo.

Boomstick777 · 5 Jun 2015 at 20:59

humbug said:
Hey Boom, it looks like AMD have found a massive performance per Watt increase in their GPU's

You think the 3XX chips might have similar optimization? Looking forward to seeing AMD's new GPU's. Really hoping they are strong performers. Not long to find out..

Carrizo looks decent. shame there isn't any desktop chips, maybe it's purely optimized for low power and doesn't scale up very well.. Kaveri is looking really dated at at this point.

Emlyn_Dewar · 6 Jun 2015 at 10:55

I remember there was a Zotac ITX board that used a Turion chip. If Carrizo is as good as we're hoping, then maybe we could see a similar idea?
Would really love a low power box to sit under the TV, that had some gaming ability.
I'm happy with Kaveri, but more GPU performance would always be welcomed!

Davedree · 6 Jun 2015 at 11:14

Emlyn_Dewar said:
I remember there was a Zotac ITX board that used a Turion chip. If Carrizo is as good as we're hoping, then maybe we could see a similar idea?
Would really love a low power box to sit under the TV, that had some gaming ability.
I'm happy with Kaveri, but more GPU performance would always be welcomed!

Carrrizo is mobile only due to it's construction (high density, over clocks), the performance won't scale with more power as the bandwidth limitation will be exactly the same as kaveri. I don't think you're going to get viable 1080p until either Skylake gt4e or Zen. At the moment Intel has the best desktop igp solution but it's not worth the price over a dedicated itx spec gpu.
Here is my thread about e8860 which I suggested Amd use with Itx boards over a year ago.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=25935801

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASRock/VisionX_HTOC/4.html

Edit Carrizo makes for a brilliant htpc solution though as it has a better uvd engine than kaveri refresh.

Legion · 6 Jun 2015 at 12:36

Native H265 decode on Carrizo, now we just need a board maker to have the kahuna's to get some ITX boards out with these soldered on.

There's a market here with intel having no native h265 decode until Skylake.

Davedree · 6 Jun 2015 at 16:01

Legion said:
Native H265 decode on Carrizo, now we just need a board maker to have the kahuna's to get some ITX boards out with these soldered on.

There's a market here with intel having no native h265 decode until Skylake.

There may be hope that they'll come like the e350's did on a soldered bga board., It just depends on whether Amd will struggle to sell Carrizo like they have all the other apu's.
They've missed the opportunity twice with their low power itx solutions, they should have employed me to market them.

humbug · 6 Jun 2015 at 16:10

Davedree said:
Carrrizo is mobile only due to it's construction (high density, over clocks), the performance won't scale with more power as the bandwidth limitation will be exactly the same as kaveri. I don't think you're going to get viable 1080p until either Skylake gt4e or Zen. At the moment Intel has the best desktop igp solution but it's not worth the price over a dedicated itx spec gpu.
Here is my thread about e8860 which I suggested Amd use with Itx boards over a year ago.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=25935801

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASRock/VisionX_HTOC/4.html

Edit Carrizo makes for a brilliant htpc solution though as it has a better uvd engine than kaveri refresh.

Sweeping statements and some of it is wrong.

Carrrizo uses Colour and Texture Compression 'among other things' to improve memory performance, the bandwidth limitations are not "exactly the same as kaveri" they are far better and it accounts for a lot of the performance improvements.

Carrrizo has the same number of shaders as kaveri, Carrrizo looks like it has about 90% the performance of kaveri at what we know to be 35% the power consumption.
The clock rates of Carrrizo as far i know have not yet been publish, i don't think its unreasonable that Carrrizo runs at about half the Mhz of kaveri with the fore mentioned archtectetural differences Carrrizo has to make up the performance difference and bring the power levels down.

Intel's new iGPU is great, no doubt about that but lets put it into perspective. Intel's chips are 14nm vs 28nm for AMD, Intel's iGPU has EDram.

We don't yet know how AMD's new 35 Watt chip performs compared with Intel's new 35 Watt chip as they have yet to be tested against eachother in actual games.

Given what we do know it looks close, the only real difference is Intel have to use EDram and 14nm to get there.

Intel are throwing the everything including the kitchen sink at iGPU's right now while the CPU changes little... and IMO they still haven't got there when you consider what they actually have to do to compete with AMD

Davedree · 6 Jun 2015 at 16:23

humbug said:
Sweeping statements and some of it is wrong.

Carrrizo uses Colour and Texture Compression 'among other things' to improve memory performance, the bandwidth limitations are not "exactly the same as kaveri" they are far better and it accounts for a lot of the performance improvements.

Carrrizo has the same number of shaders as kaveri, Carrrizo looks like it has about 90% the performance of kaveri at what we know to be 35% the power consumption.
The clock rates of Carrrizo as far i know have not yet been publish, i don't think its unreasonable that Carrrizo runs at about half the Mhz of kaveri with the fore mentioned archtectetural differences Carrrizo has to make up the performance difference and bring the power levels down.

Intel's new iGPU is great, no doubt about that but lets put it into perspective. Intel's chips are 14nm vs 28nm for AMD, Intel's iGPU has EDram.

We don't yet know how AMD's new 35 Watt chip performs compared with Intel's new 35 Watt chip as they have yet to be tested against each other in actual games.

Given what we do know it looks close, the only real difference is Intel have to use EDram and 14nm to get there.

Intel are throwing the everything including the kitch sink at iGPU's right now, and IMO they still haven't got there when you consider what they actually have to do to compete with AMD

The fact you don't have specifications means you cannot correct my so called sweeping statements with your opinion. I believe the Carrizo igp runs at 800mhz but it's not clear how much throttling of the cpu-cores and gpu cores are used to balance the tdp. Kaveri throttles horrendously in stock mode. I agree Carrizo has not been benched against Kaveri especially in gaming situations at a range of resolutions, compression may well aid in theoretical bandwidth but it's no miracle for 1080p performance. If you are basing that off of tonga's compression vs tahiti, then tonga still has good throughput with it's gddr5 memory chips and bus before the compression is accounted for.

I'm not denying it may scale better than Kaveri but you won't see it because Carrizo at the moment is mobile based only. Intel doesn't use edram in it's mobile iris pro 6100, only in desktop 6200. How can you dismiss that Intel for the last 2 years have had the stronger performing igp? this is fact.

humbug · 6 Jun 2015 at 16:34

Davedree said:
The fact you don't have specifications means you cannot correct my so called sweeping statements with your opinion. I believe the Carrizo igp runs at 800mhz but it's not clear how much throttling of the cpu-cores and gpu cores are used to balance the tdp. Kaveri throttles horrendously in stock mode. I agree Carrizo has not been benched against Kaveri especially in gaming situations at a range of resolutions, compression may well aid in theoretical bandwidth but it's no miracle for 1080p performance. If you are basing that off of tonga's compression vs tahiti, then tonga still has good throughput with it's gddr5 memory chips and bus before the compression is accounted for.

I'm not denying it may scale better than Kaveri but you won't see it because Carrizo at the moment is mobile based only. Intel doesn't use edram in it's mobile iris pro 6100, only in desktop 6200. How can you dismiss that Intel for the last 2 years have had the stronger performing igp? this is fact.

Actually the 35 Watt Carrizo scores about 85% as high as the 95 Watt Kaveri in 3DMark.

your sums to make your sweeping statements don't add up, not by a long way

And your argument is Colour and Texture Compression does nothing, despite the fact that we know it does. 800Mhz is about the same as Kaveri

Davedree · 6 Jun 2015 at 16:38

humbug said:
Actually the 35 Watt Carrizo scores about 85% as high as the 95 Watt Kaveri in 3DMark.

your sums to make your sweeping statements don't add up, not by a long way

And your argument is Colour and Texture Compression does nothing, despite the fact that we know it does.

lol you missed out quite a lot of my post and cherry picked what you wanted to reply to.

My sums don't add up? What sums?
I'm stating kaveri will not scale up in clockspeed because it's a mobile apu, it uses high density over clockspeeds. I am not denying it's power envelope is impressive in regards to Kaveri. However it doesn't mean Carrizo will scale from 35w to 95w and become a viable 1080p contender.

My argument is colour and compression may help but it's still not enough for 1080p. I am not saying it won't do anything.

humbug · 6 Jun 2015 at 16:51

Davedree said:
lol you missed out quite a lot of my post and cherry picked what you wanted to reply to.

My sums don't add up? What sums?
I'm stating kaveri will not scale up in clockspeed because it's a mobile apu, it uses high density over clockspeeds. I am not denying it's power envelope is impressive in regards to Kaveri. However it doesn't mean Carrizo will scale from 35w to 95w and become a viable 1080p contender.

My argument is colour and compression may help but it's still not enough for 1080p. I am not saying it won't do anything.

Your argument is the 250% power improvement has nothing to do with architectural improvements in Carrizo, thats its some manufacturing processes that means the APU cannot scale beyond where it is, and your stating all these things as facts with absolutely no point of reference.

I don't know, what is obvious is for whatever reason you are making a bunch of completely unsubstantiated blanket statements to put the breaks on any possibility of its scaling anymore beyond the performance it already has, forbid that should ever happen.

The facts are the technologies that exist in Carrizo improve memory performance by about 30% in GDDR5, in DDR3 at the very least its the same, very likely to be more.

What you said was
"the bandwidth limitation will be exactly the same as kaveri" one of your many sweeping statments and utter nonsense given what we do know about Carrizo.

Davedree · 6 Jun 2015 at 17:00

humbug said:
Your argument is the 250% power improvement has nothing to do with architectural improvements in Carrizo, thats its some manufacturing processes that means the APU cannot scale beyond where it is, and your stating all these things as facts with absolutely no point of reference.

I don't know, what is obvious is for whatever reason you are making a bunch of completely unsubstantiated blanket statements to put the breaks on any possibility of its scaling anymore beyond the performance it already has, forbid that should ever happen.

The facts are the technologies that exist in Carrizo improve memory performance by about 30% in GDDR5, in DDR3 at the very least its the same, very likely to be more.

What you said was
"the bandwidth limitation will be exactly the same as kaveri" one of your many sweeping statments and utter nonsense given what we do know about Carrizo.

I am most certainly not ignoring the architectural improvments considering Carrizo using rescaling and high dense library= means they have more transistors in the same footprint.
More transistors (3.1 billion vs 2.4billion means you get more done but in Carrizo this is for a 15w-35w tdp envelope.

"the bandwidth limitation will be exactly the same as kaveri"
Lol yeah and the end of the day Kaveri and Carrizo are both limited by shared ddr3 bandwidth, Something both you and Boom ignored in the Kaveri thread and something I had to repeat, I even predicted the igp performance of the kaveri igp and was proven right. Just like in this thread there was a link to x2 the performance based on sisoftware benches, which you said would translate into performance, which it hasn't

edit and it all is based on acceptable 1080p performance.