It isn't cheaper in the long term, RPL is the last cpu of that platform, while Zen 4 is the first one, and it is expected to support at least 2 next gen cpu-s.
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AMD confirms Ryzen 7 5800X3D launches this spring, Zen4 Raphael in 2H 2022
- Thread starter Dave2150
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But if the initial upgrade costs more than the board then where is the saving?
A B660 with DDR4 and a 13700k will be around £550 while a X670 7900X and DDR5 £1000 so plenty of savings on the Intel side to pay for a future board and memory upgrade in a couple of years when DDR5 is cheaper.
Soldato
Very confident in your future predictions, both in naming pricing and assumptions on what will be competing with what.
Wow, did you use time stone?
I think we can safely assume the RPL i7 will be going up against the ryzen 9 12 core again as Intel will be increasing core counts. The ryzen 7 8 core would only just be able to match the Alderlake i7 assuming it gets around 40% ipc.
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The common misconception also is that if you can't upgrade the CPU on a board that the board then somehow becomes a paper weight but it's often the case that 50% of the original outlay can just be recouped by selling the board either on MM or usual online market place.
Why are you comparing what i giess will be a mid range intel board with a high end AMD board? Plus you are forgetting to factor in that the purchase of teh DDR5 can be carried forward where any potential future upgrade past 13th gen would run only on DDR 5
Exactly, RPL will be last ddr4 cpu. And i'm quite sure there will be b650 boards.
Will AMD even have B650 out at release? B550 came a year after X570, while RPL will run on B660/Z690 which will receive price cuts once 700 series boards are out.
DDR5 can be carried forward but it will still carry a hefty premium and come with slower speeds / timings when AM5 is released compared to what will be out a couple of years later once it matures and the semiconductor shortages ease off so delaying the purchase of DDR5 will again save money.
Probably, because they dind't need to rush with b550, competition was weak.
There is just no arguing with you. Quoestion how long till Intel start milking the customers again? You seem to have a crystal ball for everything else so this should be a easy answer
Soldato
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The only thing we can safely assume is that we can't assume anything!
Why people choose to argue over hypotheticals is beyond me. At least have the good sense to wait until the thing is released.
Soldato
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Take it this way: PS5 could be had at launch for $399/$499. PS4 was around $399 as well. PS3 could be had for $499/$599 (which would be - adjusted to inflation for PS5 launch date about: $644/$774), on a quick google.
So the price from PS4 to PS5 remained the same even after all those years.
1600x was $250
2600X was $230
3600X was $250
5600X was $300
1800x was $500
2700X was $330
3800X was $400
5800X was $450
5800X3D will be $449?
Comparing to the top prices for consoles, the difference is hugely in their advantage. PS3 would be around 61% more expensive compared to PS5 adjusted for inflation + at the launch date of PS5.
On the AMD CPU side, the price dropped from 1xxx to 2xxx gen and then it slowly crawled back up, surpassing it for the 6core and with the 8 core part getting pretty close - probably 7xxx will overpass that too.
So you see, you get a lot hardware for that console price, there isn't much room to go down. On the CPU side...
Xbox One at launch £429, today on rainforest Xbox One £217, so as is said over teh course of a products life cycle cost decreases. You totally missed teh point of teh conversation at the time and now that conversation has passed
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Soldato
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You can't compare the price of consoles to CPUs as the cost of consoles can be kept artificially low because Sony etc will make most of that money back from the games sold to play on that console. This doesn't happen to anyhere near the same extent as CPU's.
You could however compare consoles to printers. As you can see the cost of printers has been kept relatively fairly low over the years but that's because the companies make make more money from the sale of ink cartridges used in those printers.
Soldato
I'm not entirely sure why this is at all relevant? A CPU is a CPU, it is the sale of an item and it isn't sold to support a software business. If no one has your console you aren't going to sell any games, if no one buys your CPU you've not actually sold the product you wanted to sell, or that individual item.
The ps3 was way over complicated but powerful, the ps3's cpu is more powerful than the PS4 cpu
Nah.
AM5 has higher socket power spec so 16c parts can actually stretch their legs. If you allow a 5950X or 5900X to consume about as much power as a stock 12900K then you see 20% performance increases in MT production workloads. Considering the 12900K sits between the 5900X and 5950X in production workloads that increase means the 5900X can catch up and the 5950X has a 25% or so advantage on the 12900K at similar power levels.
With a 170W max TDP it means AMD can let their 24c (One will come eventually, may be a Zen 4 part to fight off RPL or may be a Zen 5 part but it will happen at some point on the AM5 ecosystem), 16c and 12c parts fly so I can easily see above average gains with these parts in MT workloads.
On top of that a 40% performance increase on average for low thread count workloads will put it a good 10% ahead of RPL (Napkin math time. CB single thread has ADL about 15-18% ahead of Zen 3, some tweaks to RPL p cores could see that stretch to 30% max so a 40% gain for Zen 4 gives it the 10% delta over RPL in low thread count workloads).
I think RPL i7 will sit between the 8c and 12c Zen 4 parts in MT workloads if that i7 has DDR5 ram and if it has DDR4 ram then it will be closer to the 8c part. I am assuming here that the RPL i7 will be 8p 8e and have similar performance to the 12900K at much lower power draw.
As for gaming I don't really see any ADL or RPL part competing with any of AMDs Zen 4 parts.
As for the Zen 4 stack. I expect at launch, due to high DDR5 prices AMD will probably only bother with the 8c, 12c and 16c parts. I could also see a naming reshuffle to make 8c R5, 12c R7 and the 16c the 7900 R9 leaving space for a 24c 7950 should it be needed and as yield and supply becomes more abundant.
For cheaper builds that is where Zen 3 and the 5800X3D come into play. I could see AMD positioning the 5800X3D as the ultimate gaming part with 5700X being a good workhorse that will end up being priced to compete with the 12600K. The 5600X and 5600 can compete with the 6p 0e ADL parts already so just price them competitively and let the cheaper motherboards reduce the platform cost comparison. Then the 5900X and 5950X get EOL'd as the kinds of users who would look at those parts would see a huge benefit going with a Zen 4 build. Also EOL'ing the 2CCD Zen 3 parts gives more N6/N7 capacity for the v-cache, Zen 4 IO Dies, N33, N31/N32 MCDs etc.
Soldato
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Walls of speculative text aside, is anyone actually getting one so we can test and compare against it?