AMD demonstrates Ryzen 9 5900X prototype with 3D V-Cache stack chiplet design

[Toasty]

Ian says "to keep the same profit margin AMD will have to increase the price by around 50%" - looking more like these will be a limited release on desktop to keep very good bins to cope with the extra power draw and they won't want a hit on margin, if they mass release them with only a little price increase.

 

[Grim5]

Ian says "to keep the same profit margin AMD will have to increase the price by around 50%" - looking more like these will be a limited release on desktop to keep very good bins to cope with the extra power draw and they won't want a hit on margin, if they mass release them with only a little price increase.

So it's just a limited run special edition? Just something to make the wait for Zen4 for palatable

 

[Toasty]

Just speculation on my part if they are that more expensive to make they won't want to make a lot of them, far better to keep them for server where margins are far greater.

 

[Perfect_Chaos]

50%? So £1250 for the 6950X?

It had better be 50% faster...

Not as far as Ian thinks.

It's here he talks about 50% price increase :- https://youtu.be/A9hUHuQcyiQ?t=6228

That's it, if that's true then there's no way these would be good price/performance.

Do you have a source for this? 50% more expensive sounds madness. I know TSMC increased their prices in the last few months, but......

Already been linked to by Purgatory.

 

[Toasty]

They won't increase the price by 50% that would be insane they will just add a bit on and take the margin hit and make it a limited release as the real money for these is in server where the workloads benefit the most.

 

[Joxeon]

That's it, if that's true then there's no way these would be good price/performance.

AMD are already a long way behind Intel in price to performance for the current Zen 3 chips so I can't see them being able to increase prices much more.

It would end up eroding the mindshare that AMD have built up since we already see people paying more for slower AMD chips than going with faster and cheaper Intel ADL alternatives on the back of that mindshare but there is only so much the consumer will bare.

 

[Twinz]

Intel had a lot more breathing room when they started stagnating and tanking value.

Maybe AMD missed the Alderlake relase and have never heard of Raptor lake?

Forget Covid, it seems complacency is far more contagious in corporate circles these days.

I was thinking of upgrading to a 16-core Vcache chip as one last upgrade for my X570 board, but if AMD sets prices high enough that I can make a complete platform change to Alderlake and still come in under the cost of a simple AMD CPU upgrade...I may just do that.

Scratch the upgrade itch and reward the manufacturer that's actually competing.

 

[NZXT30]

Maybe they think they can increase prices by 50% due to these V cache CPUs mining performance.

The 6600XT that was released during the ETH boom was almost a 40% MSRP increase from the 5600XT despite lacklustre performance increases and even the 6600 non XT went up by 20% despite only being 5% faster.

CPU mining is dead again for the average Joe, only lasted a few weeks for one particular coin until data centers switched their hash power and destroyed profitability.

The way I see it AMD had a good run, too good to be honest and are now struggling to come to terms with the lower profits similarly to Intel back in 2017. They will have to face reality very soon though.

 

[TNA]

Intel had a lot more breathing room when they started stagnating and tanking value.

Maybe AMD missed the Alderlake relase and have never heard of Raptor lake?

Forget Covid, it seems complacency is far more contagious in corporate circles these days.

I was thinking of upgrading to a 16-core Vcache chip as one last upgrade for my X570 board, but if AMD sets prices high enough that I can make a complete platform change to Alderlake and still come in under the cost of a simple AMD CPU upgrade...I may just do that.

Scratch the upgrade itch and reward the manufacturer that's actually competing.

+1

AMD will just need to make less profit on the new CPU’s and produce less. At least it will show them as competing and not erode mind share they built up. Took them ages to build up mind share, if they start pricing silly it won’t take long before it is ****** down the drain. They only need it for a while until Zen 4 is out anyway.

If one can just sell their mobo and go DDR4 Alderlake for cheaper, they may well do that. AMD need to price it so it is not cheaper to do this.

 

[LePhuronn]

CPU mining is dead again for the average Joe...

CPU mining is not dead, it's back in a big way. It's called Raptoreum and loves L3 cache. And that's what's going to swallow up all the v cache Ryzens

The way I see it AMD had a good run, too good to be honest and are now struggling to come to terms with the lower profits similarly to Intel back in 2017. They will have to face reality very soon though.

Utter, utter tosh.

 

[humbug]

It's here he talks about 50% price increase :- https://youtu.be/A9hUHuQcyiQ?t=6228

I have to say i'm a little surprised at Ian Cutress, to say because AMD are adding 50% more die it would drive costs up 50% to keep the same margins. That's not how it works.

At $20,000 per 12" wafer one 8 core CPU chiplet is costing AMD $28,80, The IO die is much larger but old GloFo 14nm, its probably about $10, so the die material cost for a 5600X / 5800X is about $40, about $70 for a 5950X, with the 3D stacked L3 it comes to about $105.

The die material costs are only a part of the overall costs, you have the PCB, the Heat Spreader and manufacturing costs on top of that, that could bring the 6950X to $150+, the actual cost increase is probably only around 20%, AMD might absorb half of that cost and if they are selling in to the supply chain at $400 it might only cost the a couple of % margins on that product, a few $, they could adsorb the whole cost and it wouldn't make any meaningful difference in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Dave2150]

I have to say i'm a little surprised at Ian Cutress, to say because AMD are adding 50% more die it would drive costs up 50% to keep the same margins. That's not how it works.

At $20,000 per 12" wafer one 8 core CPU chiplet is costing AMD $28,80, The IO die is much larger but old GloFo 14nm, its probably about $10, so the die material cost for a 5600X / 5800X is about $40, about $70 for a 5950X, with the 3D stacked L3 it comes to about $105.

The die material costs are only a part of the overall costs, you have the PCB, the Heat Spreader and manufacturing costs on top of that, that could bring the 6950X to $150+, the actual cost increase is probably only around 20%, AMD might absorb half of that cost and if they are selling in to the supply chain at $400 it might only cost the a couple of % margins on that product, a few $, they could adsorb the whole cost and it wouldn't make any meaningful difference in the grand scheme of things.

Lets take a look at Ian's credentials



What are your credentials? Interested to know, as you claim to know more and have more informed decisions than him. If you could elaborate for our benefit that would be cool.

 

[LePhuronn]

I'm very surprised Dr. Cutress doesn't seem to know how AMD designed the v cache chiplet, despite them actually showing us exactly how they planned it.

I really can't see how a single, tiny sliver of cache soldered to an existing chiplet which already factored cache stacking into its design using a manufacturing process that is (allegedly) mature and cost-effective at 12 layers, and then bolted to a package that has zero design modifications will suddenly cost 50% more to produce.

 

[LePhuronn]

Lets take a look at Ian's credentials

Doesn't make Ian infallible, far from it. But then, you're not known for logic and reason yourself so hardly in a position to question anybody's knowledge or integrity.

 

[Journey]

Ian obviously misspoke with regards to the costs to manufacture, maybe he was referring to operating margins, since the increase costs will not be 100%, or even 50% of the cost of a current chip if you include all of the parts and steps to make it into a finished product. Lets also not forget they will be using 'waste' dies that don't make the cut for EPYC Milan-X, so in theory the cost is lower again. I would be if you tweet him and ask for a clarification, or justification then he would do just that and he is a very transparent and honest person.

 

[humbug]

Lets take a look at Ian's credentials



What are your credentials? Interested to know, as you claim to know more and have more informed decisions than him. If you could elaborate for our benefit that would be cool.

I have a huge amount of respect for him and his knowledge, that's why i said i'm surprised at him. It was a daft thing to say, as @LePhuronn said no one is perfect.

 

[alec]

So it's just a limited run special edition? Just something to make the wait for Zen4 for palatable

Milan-X will eat every chiplet they can make for data centers. And anything left for desktop will be in high demand with gamers and general DIY upgrades.
So expect desktop Vermeer-X to be a very rare and expensive CPU.

 

[humbug]

You know its interesting watching that Tech Deals guy masticating about Intel, in his mind there is only Intel and AMD should be grateful to exist in the shadow of the great and powerful Intel.

15 minutes before that they were talking about fanboys, i'm sure in his mind there are only AMD fanboys, and this isn't unusual, even Steve from Hardware Unboxed seems to have this mindset, he's very specific when he talks about fanboys, they are only ever AMD's, he's only happy when AMD are much cheaper than Intel, when they are not he gets very angry, as if its AMD's job to metre Intel's pricing, like they have no right to get out from under Intel shadow and now that they have he seems very upset and confused, which is why he does stupid things like delibratly taking something Lisa said about cost completely out of context and deliberately twist it in to something its not, he felt justified to attack AMD's CEO like this.
They are completely out of touch, they seem to be stuck in the Bulldozer eara, they have no clue about who AMD was in the 1990's and early 2000's and think AMD's current success must be because they got lucky given that if AMD are 100% then Intel must be 10,000%.

Well most of their viewers just don't see it the same way, what they do see is that ^^^^^ mindset and get more than just a little bored with it.

AMD wouldn't exist today if in technology terms they had not got one over on Intel time and time again.
Yes Intel created the CPU, but everything after that is all AMD. As Ian snipped at him "the people who created Itanium" which went completely over this guys head.....
The modern CPU is AMD's innovation.
Karl Benz invented the car, it had a rear mounted boxer engine, that doesn't make him responsible for this, he doesn't get that credit.

 

[Yaayuh!]

Karl Benz invented the car, it had a rear mounted boxer engine, that doesn't make him responsible for this, he doesn't get that credit.

Flat engine, yes, but not a boxer.

/Pedant.

 

[humbug]

Flat engine, yes, but not a boxer.

/Pedant.

It only had a single cylinder, ok fine i'll accept your pedant