AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[melmac]

This is what most people are forgetting. What have AMD learned from working on the consoles that they can now bring to PC? I will be very surprised if the answer is nothing.

For Ray tracing? nothing is my answer. I think it will be the other way around in this case.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

For Ray tracing? nothing is my answer. I think it will be the other way around in this case.

AMD would have been working with Microsoft and Sony,who both wanted RT in their next consoles. RDNA2 would have been developed in part with specifications both Microsoft and Sony wanted. So any AMD RT implementation will have to be developer friendly and flexible.

PS5 Gaming Reveal showcased many games using "ray tracing". None of which required the same brute force method Nvidia wants you to believe as to "how it's done". It can be done in different ways because a game will ALWAYS be rasterized with some elements of ray tracing in it. Which is why it's no surprise that you see it on consoles. But remember...consoles are using lower end Navi gpus compared to what AMD will release by 4th Quarter.

You don't need dedicated hardware to RT, just a smart way of implementing RT in game.

Turing was always a beta test of RT. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Nvidia changes tact with Ampere to make it more efficient,as they simply can't make 900MM2 dies this time,which will be profitable enough to sell in volume for gamers. So I suspect Turing might age very poorly in RT performance.

 

[BS Dave]

AMD would have been working with Microsoft and Sony,who both wanted RT in their next consoles. RDNA2 would have been developed in part with specifications both Microsoft and Sony wanted. So any AMD RT implementation will have to be developer friendly and flexible.

also AMD will have known about Nvidia RTX way before the 2 series were launched so I’m sure they will have had time to add something in if they wanted to. I’m sure @Rroff said something like 2xxx is not what people are expecting... might have been @Silent_Scone

 

[melmac]

so RT tanks FPS in say BFV because raster performance is bad, not because there aren’t enough RT cores. Right

Sorry, missed this post.

It's combination of both and the way the game developer has approached the Hybrid rendering. It's a balancing act at the moment. More efficient RT cores would be better than more cores at the moment.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

also AMD will have known about Nvidia RTX way before the 2 series were launched so I’m sure they will have had time to add something in if they wanted to. I’m sure @Rroff said something like 2xxx is not what people are expecting... might have been @silent Scone...

I think Turing was realistically more of a GPU series developed for professional VFX. Nvidia tarted it up as a gaming line-up as R and D was already accounted for. This is why software support for its features was poor for the first 12 months or so. I suspect Ampere will have changes to make the RT implementation more efficient.

 

[humbug]

You seem to have problem admitting that Nvidia are first to support that. Turing supports DX12 Ultimate.

So what? why is that so important to you? is what you are suggesting with this that only Turing supports Ray Tracing? No. its not.

 

[humbug]

I think Turing was realistically more of a GPU series developed for professional VFX. Nvidia tarted it up as a gaming line-up as R and D was already accounted for. This is why software support for its features was poor for the first 12 months or so. I suspect Ampere will have changes to make the RT implementation more efficient.

This is exactly what it is...

 

[melmac]

AMD would have been working with Microsoft and Sony,who both wanted RT in their next consoles. RDNA2 would have been developed in part with specifications both Microsoft and Sony wanted. So any AMD RT implementation will have to be developer friendly and flexible.

And? Look, all I am saying is that it's more than likely than AMD will bringing knowledge learned from the PC industry about Ray Tracing to the consoles, not the other way around.

Earlier in the thread, you might have missed it, but one developer has already came out with some performance information. You won't be able to have high frame rate and Ray Tracing on at the same time. The player will have to make a choice.

 

[humbug]

And? Look, all I am saying is that it's more than likely than AMD will bringing knowledge learned from the PC industry about Ray Tracing to the consoles, not the other way around.

Earlier in the thread, you might have missed it, but one developer has already came out with some performance information. You won't be able to have high frame rate and Ray Tracing on at the same time. The player will have to make a choice.

DX12 Ultimate is a console API ported to PC, its designed first and fore most for the RDNA 2 Architecture, the only input Nvidia have is how it will work on their own GPU's, AMD will work with Microsoft in how it will work on their GPU's.

Ray Tracing is nothing to do with Nvidia. Its agnostic.

 

[LePhuronn]

it's more than likely than AMD will bringing knowledge learned from the PC industry about Ray Tracing to the consoles, not the other way around.

Navi has been in the works for 5 years. There was no "PC industry" for AMD to draw experience from, unless they had infiltrated Nvidia's R&D division to see how they're creating hardware-based RT acceleration years ago.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

Earlier in the thread, you might have missed it, but one developer has already came out with some performance information. You won't be able to have high frame rate and Ray Tracing on at the same time. The player will have to make a choice.

No point doing it at all then, as everyones just going to be leaving it switched off

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Ray Tracing isn't the future, it's just a checkmark in some marketing dossier to show marginal improvements in IQ.
However, below is what the future holds:

BANDWIDTH Sensitive Gaming

Anyone who's played the series will clearly see they dialed it to 11. Although flown under the radar this is PS5 bandwidth in full force. Take note of:
-Ray Tracing
-large number NPCS
-large sandbox environments (multi environments)
-Destructible environments that beats physx.
-No stuttering, hitching going from one part of the planet to another showing a totally different landscape within milliseconds
-The amount of data they are using to showcase this is just phenomenal and its not limited to just GPU power.

All done with no stutter with no need for adaptive sync, freesync, gsycn, ISLC, physx, $1200 video cards, low latency monitors, low latency mice/keyboards and special tweaks and tricks because MS forgot to make win10 for gaming.

Sure, we can do it on PC but it will be a stuttering, hitch ridden mess.
The short and dirty answer to this future gaming problem is video cards with more then 16GB of Vram to alleviate bandwidth issues on PC. As 32GB of DDR5 won't be the answer do to being bandwidth starved for these kind of games.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

This is exactly what it is...

I said this from the first reveals of Turing where Nvidia and investment websites kept talking about VFX all the time!

And? Look, all I am saying is that it's more than likely than AMD will bringing knowledge learned from the PC industry about Ray Tracing to the consoles, not the other way around.

Earlier in the thread, you might have missed it, but one developer has already came out with some performance information. You won't be able to have high frame rate and Ray Tracing on at the same time. The player will have to make a choice.

AMD developing RT capable GPUs is primarily for the consoles,not desktop as those console contracts have essentially paid for R and D. So any RT features will be developed for consoles first and PC second. So I would say AMD's experience in developing RT is for consoles,which has to efficient and relatively easy to implement and is being pulled over to PC. Remember,it's not only the hardware but all the development tools which need to be ready to make games for the consoles.

You can't compare this to Nvidia,as Nvidia has no consoles with desktop class GPUs,so everything they do is more PC orientated. If anything Nvidia was more worried about breaking into professional VFX with Turing,which is what the main focus was,as if you read a lot of the initial stuff they pushed out to investors...it was about the VFX industry. You can understand this as machine learning is increasingly a crowded market,so they are looking at new high margin markets to enter. It also explains why the Turing features took so long to mature in games.

 

[hyperseven]

Ray Tracing isn't the future, it's just a checkmark in some marketing dossier to show marginal improvements in IQ.
However, below is what the future holds:

BANDWIDTH Sensitive Gaming

Anyone who's played the series will clearly see they dialed it to 11. Although flown under the radar this is PS5 bandwidth in full force. Take note of:
-Ray Tracing
-large number NPCS
-large sandbox environments (multi environments)
-Destructible environments that beats physx.
-No stuttering, hitching going from one part of the planet to another showing a totally different landscape within milliseconds
-The amount of data they are using to showcase this is just phenomenal and its not limited to just GPU power.

All done with no stutter with no need for adaptive sync, freesync, gsycn, ISLC, physx, $1200 video cards, low latency monitors, low latency mice/keyboards and special tweaks and tricks because MS forgot to make win10 for gaming.

Sure, we can do it on PC but it will be a stuttering, hitch ridden mess.
The short and dirty answer to this future gaming problem is video cards with more then 16GB of Vram to alleviate bandwidth issues on PC. As 32GB of DDR5 won't be the answer do to being bandwidth starved for these kind of games.

So you have actually played that game in person other than watching the pre-scripted demo the rest of the world has seen. You must be well connected at Sony

 

[Calin Banc]

From a post further up it seems like the console RT solution uses the normal cores for both Ray Tracing and Normal rendering. When you turn off Ray Tracing it uses all the cores for normal gaming.

There doesn't seem to be any dedicated RT hardware in use.

So, can we assume that AMD's desktop solution will be same? The discussion stemmed from me wondering about the Ray Tracing performance if that is the case.

https://youtu.be/v1SRHrCa4XQ?t=1655

It appears to have dedicated hardware.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

So you have actually played that game in person other than watching the pre-scripted demo the rest of the world has seen. You must be well connected at Sony

You are obviously late to the party arent you? Better yet have you played the game to actually formulate an valid opinion to counter with other then roll your eyes?
If you've complete any research on your own you will see that the key difference in consoles, in particular, PS5 is increased bandwidth. That will be used make those "corridor games" much more sandbox like. As demoed in the post you replied. So, did you actually watch the gameplay demo? Because by your reply it shows you either didn't or don't understand it. When it comes to bandwidth:


VS



Although Sony is going about the rounds MS isn't saying much. However, both are saying/showing they are moving away from small linear maps into more sandbox type.

The point is as PC enthusiast we are at a disadvantage when it comes to the amount of bandwidth that consoles will exercise in games. Ratchet was one of them.

 

[hyperseven]

You are obviously late to the party arent you? Better yet have you played the game to actually formulate an valid opinion to counter with other then roll your eyes?
If you've complete any research on your own you will see that the key difference in consoles, in particular, PS5 is increased bandwidth. That will be used make those "corridor games" much more sandbox like. As demoed in the post you replied. So, did you actually watch the gameplay demo? Because by your reply it shows you either didn't or don't understand it. When it comes to bandwidth:


VS



Although Sony is going about the rounds MS isn't saying much. However, both are saying/showing they are moving away from small linear maps into more sandbox type.

Again you have seen a prescripted sequence and yet have drawn so many conclusions, its's just pure speculation yet you state them as fact

 

[Calin Banc]

Ray Tracing isn't the future, it's just a checkmark in some marketing dossier to show marginal improvements in IQ.
However, below is what the future holds:

BANDWIDTH Sensitive Gaming

Anyone who's played the series will clearly see they dialed it to 11. Although flown under the radar this is PS5 bandwidth in full force. Take note of:
-Ray Tracing
-large number NPCS
-large sandbox environments (multi environments)
-Destructible environments that beats physx.
-No stuttering, hitching going from one part of the planet to another showing a totally different landscape within milliseconds
-The amount of data they are using to showcase this is just phenomenal and its not limited to just GPU power.

All done with no stutter with no need for adaptive sync, freesync, gsycn, ISLC, physx, $1200 video cards, low latency monitors, low latency mice/keyboards and special tweaks and tricks because MS forgot to make win10 for gaming.

Sure, we can do it on PC but it will be a stuttering, hitch ridden mess.
The short and dirty answer to this future gaming problem is video cards with more then 16GB of Vram to alleviate bandwidth issues on PC. As 32GB of DDR5 won't be the answer do to being bandwidth starved for these kind of games.

How do you know it will be stuttering and hitching?

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Again you have seen a prescripted sequence and yet have drawn so many conclusions, its's just pure speculation yet you state them as fact

It was game play video, you watched the wrong video.
Do you have facts to the contrary?
Because I can show you a clear representation of how improved bandwidth will improve gameplay.

Oh wait, that too is a prescripted sequence and have drawn so many conclusions.

How do you know it will be stuttering and hitching?

It's of my opinion. Here is the next spiderman tech demo release last year

 

[hyperseven]

It was game play video, you watched the wrong video.
Do you have facts to the contrary?


It's of my opinion.

OK you live in la-la land

'it's of my opinion', funny you seem state to most of your nonsense as fact.