AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

233 · 13 Jun 2020 at 16:01

are we going to see GPUs move to a monthly subscription model?

could be a winner, tie it in with a epic store or xbox live sub every month and i'm sure a lot of people would be tempted

sort of thing that might actually work with consoles come to think of it

FoxEye · 13 Jun 2020 at 16:06

233 said:
are we going to see GPUs move to a monthly subscription model?

could be a winner, tie it in with a epic store or xbox live sub every month and i'm sure a lot of people would be tempted

sort of thing that might actually work with consoles come to think of it

I suppose they already are, if everyone wants to buy from Very and pay 300% the up-front cost over three years or something daft

TheRealDeal · 13 Jun 2020 at 16:16

varkanoid said:
Price has been took off that website again

https://www.play-asia.com/playstation-5/13/70co1r

Marketing stunt more like to get people to click "save for later"

They also added a PS5 controller for $79.99 (£66.84) pre-order.

I actually disagree with you there. The amount of people I see from certain areas where I live in Supermarkets with £1000 iPhones who you wonder how they can afford one would very much surprise you. I see more people about with iPhones than any other brand. These are the type of people that shop at Very or Littlewoods where a £700 console is very easily affordable.

You can't put phone subscriptions as the same. People like Vodafone will easily give you top end phone over 2 years knowing they got you, where as a $500 purchase of anything is either a one payment or a good credit check. Basically not as easy as you describe. Basically i have been in crap credit to good credit over the years so can tell you getting one is way easier than the other.

Troezar · 13 Jun 2020 at 16:23

I'm expecting console plus controller £4-500. They'll sell like hotcakes and money will be made on peripherals, games and subscription services. The headline price looks cheap but I bet the TCO looks more like a half decent PC by the time you've bought all the bits and pieces.

Troezar · 13 Jun 2020 at 16:29

TheRealDeal said:
You can't put phone subscriptions as the same. People like Vodafone will easily give you top end phone over 2 years knowing they got you, where as a $500 purchase of anything is either a one payment or a good credit check. Basically not as easy as you describe. Basically i have been in crap credit to good credit over the years so can tell you getting one is way easier than the other.

If you're prepared to pay a high enough interest rate you'll get one. There is a difference between a low credit score on a low income and having bad record with missed payments etc.

JediFragger · 13 Jun 2020 at 16:34

£500 easy for the PS5, which seems reasonable imo.

shadowbane · 13 Jun 2020 at 16:43

It'll be Sony testing the water with all these leaks....see the maximum they can get away with by the reaction

shankly1985 · 13 Jun 2020 at 17:04

I remember Ps3 releasing at £649 I paid it lol not the smartest purchase I made seeing the release consoles 90% died I remember mine yellow light of death sold my replacement on for the redisgn although I lost more than I gained because of the original backwards compatible etc

PS4 if I remember release £399 again only for me to go and buy the pro around £350 OK an upgrade this time.

Ps5 I think will be easy £500 to £600 I don't think they will be more than £600 unless you paying for a mad bundle deal.

Think is in hardly play on the console after ps3 it became my wife's lol now we have a little boy this time I think I'll hang in for a few years before I touch a console.
Plus the fact most games now release on PC, it's all about big Navi for me.

/cool story Bro

varkanoid · 13 Jun 2020 at 17:21

TheRealDeal said:
You can't put phone subscriptions as the same. People like Vodafone will easily give you top end phone over 2 years knowing they got you, where as a $500 purchase of anything is either a one payment or a good credit check. Basically not as easy as you describe. Basically i have been in crap credit to good credit over the years so can tell you getting one is way easier than the other.

Never mentioned phone subs and neither did the original post which was a sweeping statement and as you pointed out above plenty of people can get £1000 iPhones which proves the original post wrong.

£600, £700 it will sell in droves in the same way us on here cant wait for 3xxx or the next AMD. Little Johnny wants a PS5 his parents will buy it. Anyway wasnt it proven that most console buyers now are mid 20-30's with stacks of disposable income ? Dont forget all those holiday refunds out there is cash people have which if they have not spent it on other things is available too.

If anything this year has proven people in general can be stupid. Sweeping statement there.

Gerard · 13 Jun 2020 at 17:26

Thought i was in the console forum for a minute.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 13 Jun 2020 at 17:33

The problem is you are at around £400~£450 alone for a mainstream CPU and GPU. Once you add all the other parts,you will be closer to £750~ £1000,and the system will still be slower than even the PS5.

TNA · 13 Jun 2020 at 17:46

varkanoid said:
Marketing stunt more like to get people to click "save for later"

Could also be setting these high prices so that if it hits £499.99 then people will be like OMG, bargain! Lol

Troezar · 13 Jun 2020 at 18:01

TNA said:
Could also be setting these high prices so that if it hits £499.99 then people will be like OMG, bargain! Lol

Indeed

This time around even I'm looking at the PS5 demos and thinking why do I need a PC if only for gaming? Obviously there's some genres that don't work well on console but for most people this gen is going to be great. Those kids don't know how lucky they are, I was lucky if got to have a go on my Uncle's Atari

FoxEye · 13 Jun 2020 at 18:07

varkanoid said:
Never mentioned phone subs and neither did the original post which was a sweeping statement and as you pointed out above plenty of people can get £1000 iPhones which proves the original post wrong.

I said the majority don't have £1000 smartphones, and I don't think that's wrong. Certainly hasn't been proved wrong, heh.

Yes, people can have things they can't really afford on credit, but I'd love to see the stats showing the majority have £1000 phones.

Jacky60 · 13 Jun 2020 at 18:08

danlightbulb said:
Yeah that degree of reflection in a concrete screed floor is not realistic, looks a bit stupid really.

That degree of reflection on any floor other than liquid mercury looks stupid. Take a look with your eyes at the real World then report back. Very few surfaces are that reflective.

danlightbulb · 13 Jun 2020 at 20:30

Jacky60 said:
That degree of reflection on any floor other than liquid mercury looks stupid. Take a look with your eyes at the real World then report back. Very few surfaces are that reflective.

Well yes, I didnt feel the need to expand my post into several different types of floor finishes.

Participant · 13 Jun 2020 at 21:25

Jacky60 said:
That degree of reflection on any floor other than liquid mercury looks stupid. Take a look with your eyes at the real World then report back. Very few surfaces are that reflective.

Well they're obviously showing off and exaggerating everything for marketing purposes. I'm sure it'll settle down.

EsaT · 13 Jun 2020 at 21:54

EastCoastHandle said:
When discussing bandwidth we are not limited to individual/separate components. This is where I see the disconnect. After allowing you sometime to reconsider your position with your addendum/edit it's clear that consoles have a clear bandwidth advantage. Even though it's clear there is more involved then unpacking.

Talking about disconnects you seem to have whole lots of them...

EastCoastHandle said:
The consoles, not just the ssd can do between 10-12 Teraflops. Yes, yes, depending on load and how it uses the console. But the typical bandwidth being used is in teraflops not gigabytes.

And consoles will be needing special techniques to mitigate very small generational memory increase.
Amount of RAM only doubled from 8GB to 16GB and that has to be enough for system RAM and VRAM for many many years, which makes it small.
While DRAM always trounces any Flash memory.
Not only in bandwidth, but especially in access latency:
https://www.formulusblack.com/blog/compute-performance-distance-of-data-as-a-measure-of-latency/

Wouldn't wonder if in year or two we'll start seeing 16GB more commonly in graphics card VRAM alone.
Less than 8GB is quite certain to be relegated into low end cards and I expect big Navi to bring 12GB as minimum with 16GB well possible.
Pretty certain also Nvidia will be pushing above 12GB in high end.
Also 16GB is minimum RAM for gaming PC and high end should be moving to 32GB.
That's plenty of room to store game assets.

And with little game loading time differences between SATA and NVMe SSDs, there's lots of untapped potential in currently used PC storage tech.
No doubt courtesy of most games (+game engines) being multiplatters and designed for cramming into current stone age consoles...

EsaT · 13 Jun 2020 at 22:08

LoadsaMoney said:
The reflection of the Blue car on the right, definitely looks to be in a lower res, the tyres are more angular, and it looks more jaggy, especially around the wheel arches.

Can really see it when you zoom in.

The bloke with the headphones on kneeling down at the front wheel, has gone Grey

And have to wonder what's the logic behind reflected image being brighter than direct light?

humbug said:
This looks utterly ridiculous, its reflection for reflections sake....

That's as good use as like HDR rendering in some early games:
Big blobs of blown out highlights and equally big parts dark.

EastCoastHandle · 13 Jun 2020 at 22:29

EsaT said:
Talking about disconnects you seem to have whole lots of them...

And consoles will be needing special techniques to mitigate very small generational memory increase.
Amount of RAM only doubled from 8GB to 16GB and that has to be enough for system RAM and VRAM for many many years, which makes it small.
While DRAM always trounces any Flash memory.
Not only in bandwidth, but especially in access latency:
https://www.formulusblack.com/blog/compute-performance-distance-of-data-as-a-measure-of-latency/

Wouldn't wonder if in year or two we'll start seeing 16GB more commonly in graphics card VRAM alone.
Less than 8GB is quite certain to be relegated into low end cards and I expect big Navi to bring 12GB as minimum with 16GB well possible.
Pretty certain also Nvidia will be pushing above 12GB in high end.
Also 16GB is minimum RAM for gaming PC and high end should be moving to 32GB.
That's plenty of room to store game assets.

And with little game loading time differences between SATA and NVMe SSDs, there's lots of untapped potential in currently used PC storage tech.
No doubt courtesy of most games (+game engines) being multiplatters and designed for cramming into current stone age consoles...

The reason for the disconnect(s) are do to the understanding of memory bandwidth vs capacity. You cannot equate 16GB of DDR4 as equal to 16 GB GDDR6 because the capacity is the same. DDR4 simply won't cut it for the amount of streaming that the PS5 is demoing in the new Unreal Engine and Ratche and Clank demo. 16 GB of DDR won't get you the same memory bandwidth of 16 GB GDDR6.
For example:
GDDR5 (7Gbps) @ 256bit can offer a potential of 224GB/s of bandwidth
GDDR5 (7Gbps) @ 384bit can offer a potential of 336GB/s of bandwidth
While DDR4 3200 has the potential to do 25.6 GB/s

These PS5 game demos are streaming data! It's not the traditional PC method.
That is why we, PC enthusiast, need video cards that are more then 16GB. Be it GDDR5/GDDR6/HBM2/HBM3. And I say more then 16B do the the inherent overhead of win10.