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AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

Discussion in 'Graphics Cards' started by Gregster, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. BigBANGtheory

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    Well the point I believe is the firm belief AMD can surpass 2080Ti but doubt it can beat Ampere. So the closer you get to Ampere the worse it is for AMD as their competitive position at 4k crumbles for another cycle.
     
  2. LePhuronn

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    Also consider capacity. I've said a few times before that I don't believe there is any technical reason why AMD can't trash the 2080 Ti right now with RDNA 1. Slap out 64 CUs on RDNA 1, paired with 12GB GDDR6 and that'll beat the 2080 Ti (if you roughly scale up 5700 XT performance). That Navi die wouldn't be much bigger than Vega 20, so TSMC wouldn't have problems making it either. So why don't AMD do it? Because EPYC makes a ton more money than a halo gaming GPU. TSMC's production is prioritised to the actual money makers. I expect to see this big Navi on RDNA 1 come out around August when Zen production moves to 7nm EUV, thereby freeing up 7nm vanilla capacity.

    Now I'd agree with you in saying that's probably too little too late, because Nvidia will just drop Ampere-or-whatever-it's-called-this-week, but consider this: the longer Nvidia milk 12nm Turing because AMD have no answer means it's closer and closer to the launch of the consoles on RDNA 2. And that means AMD could now "only" be 6 months behind, rather than years behind.
     
  3. LePhuronn

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    Except the longer Nvidia hold off on Ampere because AMD offers no reason for them to push, the closer we get to the new consoles coming out, and therefore RDNA 2. So AMD very possibly could only be 6 months behind, rather than years behind. And if Nvidia don't give stupendous performance across the board with Ampere, the gap AMD have to close is a good chunk smaller than what it's been, which opens up the possibility of getting their cards out more-or-less within the same cycle as Nvidia.
     
  4. BigBANGtheory

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    So that in not a bad result for AMD either as its silicon is in those very consoles. I think we are about 6months out on Big Navi personally, when people describe Nvidia as being years ahead I think that is true in terms of options they could deploy but honestly once we are firmly into 4k ultra with decent frame rates its all about price because its gonna be ages until a higher res becomes anywhere close to being widely adopted.

    Would you upgrade a GPU that can do 120fps 4k ultra to 200fps for £1kplus? That’s a very very small % of gamers and Nvidia can go sell them at £5k a piece for all I care. That is why I’m sure they are all over Raytracing as some must have feature I.e. to justify RT acceleration and their solution to that. It’s not really that important thought when you scratch the surface...
     
  5. LePhuronn

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    Indeed, if it comes to pass this way AMD have been handed a bit of a free catch up. Also define "Big Navi". That could still be RDNA 1, just taking Navi 10 up to 56, 64 and maybe even 80 CUs (TSMC can make a 7nm die that big) if AMD can keep the board power down. Drop that out there around Computex for August (say) availability. That's your 6 months right there.

    Even if we do see Ampere launch about the same time, Nvidia would have to literally bang out this suggested "50% moar everything" rumour to maintain their lead, because RDNA 1 at those CU counts is likely to be nip and tuck with halo Turing.

    Also consider this: Nvidia have Ampere imminently, but how far away is Hopper? If Big Navi is still RDNA 1 we know RDNA 2 is coming with consoles end of this year, so that's a new architecture ready to drop from AMD. Does that mean it's now Nvidia playing catch up? Big RDNA 1 passes Turing, Ampere passes RDNA 1, RDNA 2 passes Ampere but Hopper could still be a year away. Could AMD leapfrog Nvidia by getting RDNA 3 out before Hopper?

    Tasty speculation indeed. We all know it won't happen, but it's not outside the realms of possibility.
     
  6. EastCoastHandle

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    Right now it is rumored that AMD have 2 separate skus for Navi.

    One is Navi 21. This is rumored to be the 5800 series (or whatever they decide to call it). This sku is rumored to beat 2800 series. However, it's not clear if it will beat the 2080ti. Although rumor suggest that it will beat the 2080ti.

    The other is Navi 23. This is the alleged Nvidia killer. This sku is designed to go against Nvidia 7nm offerings from Samsung. Some assumed it will be called 5900 series. However, rumor suggest that's not the name of this sku. Whatever that sku is named it's set to compete Nvidia's next gen gpus completely. From low end all the way to Titan series.

    Small caveat to all this is that it's been said a long time ago that AMD and Nvidia always seem to know what sku they are about to release just before the public is made aware. It has something to do with using TMSC, etc. This is why Nvidia was able to cut prices on the 2060 just before the release of the 5600 xt, for example.
     
  7. LePhuronn

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    That'll be RDNA 1; CU counts increasing over what we've seen so far.

    That'll be RDNA 2, so we'll be waiting until next year to see this (and will likely be 6000 series). If Nvidia drop Ampere Q3 this year (for example) that does reduce AMD's catch-up time to less than a year, rather than years.

    Let's hope this comes to pass :)
     
  8. EastCoastHandle

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    I'm sure it will. However, what has my curiousity is if this Navi23 is still a monolithic design or chiplet? That's because it's also rumored that Intel's entry into the GPU market will offer some sort of chiplet gpu sku. Not sure if it's high/mid/low end. And there was some sort of collaboration between Intel/AMD about it (going way back to Intel's Nuc designs).

    Apparently Intel solved the operating system limitations on seeing multiple module gpus as one problem. Among other concerns...
     
  9. LePhuronn

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    I don't see it being chiplet based just now. RDNA 3, for lack of a better term, probably will be because Nvidia and Intel are working on MCM designs. That should all coincide nicely as Hopper, DG2 and RDNA 3 all land more-or-less together.
     
  10. LoadsaMoney

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  11. JediFragger

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    I'm expecting a Ruiz-type clanger once Lisa Su does eventually go tbh, almost ruin the company and for it to start over again! Hopefully they choose her successor wisely...
     
  12. Scougar

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  13. LePhuronn

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    She;s not left AMD, she's still CEO and on the board. She's literally just swapped Analog Devices for Cisco.

    But interestingly, Cisco's big competitor Mellanox is in an acquisition bid by...Nvidia.
     
  14. Scougar

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    AMD keep mentioning disruptive..makes me think I should wait... Again, again... For this card(s) to be released.

    I have waited 3 years+ now LMAO. The only person suffering is me hahaha
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  15. Stanners

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    Poor Volta, you keep waiting for the disruption;)

    on a serious note let’s hope they do something to get the market competitive again at the high end.
     
  16. JediFragger

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    I know, I mean for 'when' she does.
     
  17. BigBANGtheory

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    we never got Volta, we got the shaft Turing style :eek:
     
  18. Troezar

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    I'm seeing RDNA like early Ryzen, a decent start with hopefully greater inroads made with subsequent generations. By the time we hit RDNA2++ I think they could be competing hard.
     
  19. apostolis_kt

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    I have the same concerns as you. Add to that driver support as far as my experience, so far going to latest drivers didn't help my experience, crossfire was rendered useless and had to go back to previous drivers. I want AMD to be able to compete up there and was stung badly by the Vega hype.

    But i think appart from my Vegas being huge, heavy and taking 3 slots each, they are the best looking cards i had so far and not as loud as my KFA2 680GTX was. Who would have thought a Vega wouldn't be loud, the bloody things eat electricity as if there is no tomorrow.
     
  20. Stanners

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    it was more a joke on AMD’s previous marketing.