Soldato
Nice summary and pretty spot on. Akin to people obsessed with football clubs no matter what facts you present to state opinion.
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AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year
- Thread starter Gregster
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Nice summary and pretty spot on. Akin to people obsessed with football clubs no matter what facts you present to state opinion.
Soldato
My horrific skim read on the details when I could be bothered to batter my matter on the topic was nvidia have hardware to do a lot of the lifting. The caveat is if your game is not using this it is a waste of hardware. An educated guess at some 300+ games released per year with only 4 having RT capacity means your in effect paying a lot of money for 4 games, so unless these are the games you really want to play its nothing to shout about.
This is why the other approach that shares resources and wont waste hardware when the games do not have it is IMO the sensible option.
Caporegime
As I understand it the 3080 is the top die and is their flagship gaming card making it analogous to the 2080Ti. Add to it there appears to be no room to place a 3080Ti and the 3090 looks like the Titan in all but name. There's nowhere above the 3090 to go given how poorly it scales over the 3080. Therefore I stand by the 2000 series being expensive and the 3000 series being back to "normal" pricing. The fact you can't buy one is an entirely another matter
As I understand it the 3080 is the top die and is their flagship gaming card making it analogous to the 2080Ti. Add to it there appears to be no room to place a 3080Ti and the 3090 looks like the Titan in all but name. There's nowhere above the 3090 to go given how poorly it scales over the 3080. Therefore I stand by the 2000 series being expensive and the 3000 series being back to "normal" pricing. The fact you can't buy one is an entirely another matter
3080 is 16 SMs short of a full core - but as always at this level there tend to be diminishing returns and that just over 23% extra hardware likely doesn't translate into 23% extra in game performance and even then you are only talking 2-4% performance over the 3090.
From reports there was another bigger core (which probably would have been the 3080ti and Titan) but it wasn't possible to fabricate it on Samsung 8nm in commercial viable quantities for general retail which is probably one of the reasons we've ended up with a 3080 and 3090 on GA102 though I doubt the only reason.
That doesn't mean nVidia are out of options here however.
Lol Nvidia Ampere launch gets better by the day, the launch that just keeps on delivering (well, except their cards, they dont get delivered)
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/c...lent/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Sad thing is tho, AMD release with worse performance than Nvidia and their launch will be deemed the fail
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/c...lent/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Sad thing is tho, AMD release with worse performance than Nvidia and their launch will be deemed the fail
Soldato
Sometime soon I reckon you will see where the supply is going, like in that story the privileged few will crop up again in the form of mining overlords or black market scalping.
Indeed, people always leave out the variables involved, as if ray tracing was just on or off. Heck, Crytek does RT even on current-gen consoles through software alone. Hardly worth much though.
As I understand it the 3080 is the top die and is their flagship gaming card making it analogous to the 2080Ti. Add to it there appears to be no room to place a 3080Ti and the 3090 looks like the Titan in all but name. There's nowhere above the 3090 to go given how poorly it scales over the 3080. Therefore I stand by the 2000 series being expensive and the 3000 series being back to "normal" pricing. The fact you can't buy one is an entirely another matter
My read on the situation, Nvidia saw AMD were going to beat Nvidia both to market and deliver a comparable or better GPU.
Nvidia marketing decided to release the 3080 as is, inefficient boost and unavailable card to try and tie up pre orders and steal AMD market share head of the AMD GPU launch, and it almost worked.
Nvidia have been caught napping much like Intel this time around, they don't have the response they want yet, the 7nm leaked for next year is it but it was never going to reach market to crush the AMG GPU's.
Nvidia failed to keep the market share away from AMD's up coming launch with such a botched and lie filled 3080 debut and the proof now is this shift to leaking the 7nm Ti/Super incoming next year to now try and steal that market share.
Nvidia also wanted the 3080 out now to mindshare "Hey look how cheap we are this time around arent we the good guys?" (Another marketing spin MSRP is bull!) However what they have done is set the stage with a throw away card of no real consequence to nvidia outside of stealing the 6900 thunder, so when the Ti/Supers come next year with 20gb and much more horses and lower power consumption Nvidia mark my words will be back to slapping a £1200 MRSP with the reality of £1300-1500 for a card again.
It was a marketing master stroke of hey here is an amazing card, sorry you cant buy it not our fault honest! Skim over its not that amazing vs what we almost have out and don't worry about not being able to get it we have something even better imminent stay with team Green.
Nvidia has been really clever even with a failed launch and no 7nm officially until early 2021 it might be enough to keep Green zealots on the Green cards and away from AMD, however AMD are going to win out in the short term, I think that's why we already have AMD hinting at a refresh in 2021 of 7nm down to 5nm? As My understanding is this 7nm is only a refined 8nm not a true 7nm and literally just a die shrink?
I honestly think the cards people are hoping for(And promised by Nvidia) aren't due until 2021, Nvidia when they let launch the Ti/Super early 2021 and AMD comes in mid to late 2021 with the full counter blow in 5nm, and yes this is just the normal "There is alway something incoming thats better" but you cant argue without prejudice that Nvidia have lied and manipulated the narrative, and I would seriously be asking myself if I was a team Green "Why am i being loyal to a company that has no morals or loyalty towards me".
What this all means is, if you buy a 3080 10GB before xmas you are going to have serious buyers regret much sooner than what is fair for the investment, because the AMD cards will be better short term,(Being 2-5% faster is not the best card metric!) and Nvidia is going to make the 3080Ti/Super land on 7nm real soon, even the much over hyped and totally pointless 3080 20GB is nothing more than a stop gap to prevent AMD sales until Nvidia can try and claim the crown back earl 2021.
Soldato
While I agree that they basically want to take credit for correcting the pricing that they jacked up in the first place, I still don't think one generation makes a new norm. All the generations before Turing offered ~30% improvement over the previous generation at or near the previous gen's price points. And now with another ~30% improvement back down around Pascal's pricing, Turing is clearly the outlier now.
Turing was basically Nvidia scalping their own $700 cards for far more money than the performance was worth. Either it didn't work out for Nvidia or AMD is has them scared. (I think it's a little of both)
How much are you guys willing to pay for:
a) the Big Navi graphics card shown on 08/10/2020
b) the above GPU, + 10% performance (higher clocks). Maybe just be an overclocked version?
c) an unannounced / hypothetical GPU, with equal or slightly higher perf. than a RTX 3090, similar VRAM amount
For myself, i'd say £470 for a) and £550 for b) if it exists. c) im sure I cant afford. If AMD priced this at £650, it would be pretty damaging for NV, but I still highly doubt this GPU even exists.
Otherwise, I suppose I'll just wait for GPUs released next year.
a) the Big Navi graphics card shown on 08/10/2020
b) the above GPU, + 10% performance (higher clocks). Maybe just be an overclocked version?
c) an unannounced / hypothetical GPU, with equal or slightly higher perf. than a RTX 3090, similar VRAM amount
For myself, i'd say £470 for a) and £550 for b) if it exists. c) im sure I cant afford
. If AMD priced this at £650, it would be pretty damaging for NV, but I still highly doubt this GPU even exists.Otherwise, I suppose I'll just wait for GPUs released next year.
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Soldato
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Interesting prospective. Not many see if that way. AMD is posed to beat Ampere. However, I don't think AMD is shortsighted though. I'm sure they are aware of Nvidia going 7nm. How they respond to that is another matter though. Perhaps while Nvidia goes 7nm, Radeon goes 5nm to combat Ampere refresh. Now the question would be if that's when they go chiplet or not? Hard to say just yet. We have to 1st see how good Navi 2 is at this point.
I will say this...if they go all out with the rumor 160CU variant then the 3090 is toast!!
How much are you guys willing to pay for:
a) the Big Navi graphics card shown on 08/10/2020
b) the above GPU, + 10% performance (higher clocks). Maybe just be an overclocked version?
c) an unannounced / hypothetical GPU, with equal or slightly higher perf. than a RTX 3090, similar VRAM amount
For myself, i'd say £470 for a) and £550 for b) if it exists. c) im sure I cant afford
Otherwise, I suppose I'll just wait for GPUs released next year.
I see it this way myself
72cu 6800x version if shown (at cpu event ) will 599.99 for the amd card 699.99 for the custom cards
80cu 6900x version will be there halo product will be 1k to 1.2k price
then a lower version at 499.99 to match the 3070 they will match that card on price I don’t expect them to undercut it at all. That one though will be based on per performance though so could be cheaper.
amd still haven’t shown much on base performance of a graphic card called big navi no diss no rt or anything else to match a nvidia . But amd have shown they will price the performance vs the nvidia cards the 5700xt shows that with no rt or diss etc and they matched nvidia prices
RT is the new Vodoo. AMD won't catch Nvidia at this for some time to come, if at all.
Nvidia will start 7nm early next year, but for pro cards. I'm sure they will do a super versions on 7nm, but I think it will be a year away.
Hopper still 2 years away on 5nm.
Does the 3080 need more VRAM? Not for anything on the horizon and I doubt for anything in its 2 year lifespan. The 20GB version will simply pacify epeen. Sure you can keep the 3080 for more than 2 years but you will be turning down settings once Hopper hits with a huge jump in RT.
Nvidia will launch a simple path tracing plugin for developers much in the same way they did with Ansel.
Of course this is my butt talking after some whisky at 3:30am
I don't think either company are going for an MCM design inside a year - we'd have got wind of it by now if so as it isn't a change that will happen in isolation (unless someone has made an incredible hardware breakthrough).
nVidia is not reactively changing to 7nm in the way people are inferring.
I could be wrong
but I though the 5700xt was priced within 20£ of the 2070 before super announcement and then adjusted price by a fair bit to counter nvidia move. I’m going on memory though so I could be wrong.I think AMD needs a GPU to address the RTX 3070, that GPU is gonna be one of the best performance per £ graphics cards available (at 4k resolution) judging by the price / perf of the RTX 3080.
Hopefully, this would be with the Big Navi GPU shown on 8th Oct, but I think that is probably too optimistic. The RTX 3070 only has 64 ROPs, so hopefully AMD will exceed this amount with their similarly priced GPU.
Hopefully, this would be with the Big Navi GPU shown on 8th Oct, but I think that is probably too optimistic. The RTX 3070 only has 64 ROPs, so hopefully AMD will exceed this amount with their similarly priced GPU.
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I think there's an assumption that AMD needs to beat the RTX 3090. With the high price of £1400 or more, I don't think they do. I doubt many will buy a RTX 3090, less than 1% have a RTX 2080 TI installed, according to Steam's hardware survey. Especially since the perf. gap between the 3080 and 3090 is quite small.
AMD can probably beat the RTX 3090 later, if they rush out more GPUs in 2021.
AMD can probably beat the RTX 3090 later, if they rush out more GPUs in 2021.
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Soldato
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I haven't seen anyone give AMD any credit in all this.
AMD knew that Ampere launch would flop!! They sat back and let Nvidia do the song/dance and when push came to shove, no delivery. Reminds me of a the rope-a-dope!
AMD hasn't done nor said anything and all leaks are sealed! They have just sat back and let Nvidia wear themselves out as their marketing backfired on them!!
This definitely looks like AMD was expecting yield issues from Ampere and that is exactly how it looks to me, others and the media.
Now all they need to do is deliver a finishing blow on their launch date. Will they? Time will tell.
But I wouldn't expect availability for RDNA 2 until mid Nov.
AMD knew that Ampere launch would flop!! They sat back and let Nvidia do the song/dance and when push came to shove, no delivery. Reminds me of a the rope-a-dope!
AMD hasn't done nor said anything and all leaks are sealed! They have just sat back and let Nvidia wear themselves out as their marketing backfired on them!!
This definitely looks like AMD was expecting yield issues from Ampere and that is exactly how it looks to me, others and the media.
Now all they need to do is deliver a finishing blow on their launch date. Will they? Time will tell.
But I wouldn't expect availability for RDNA 2 until mid Nov.
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