AMD on the road to recovery.

TrixP10 · 27 Jan 2023 at 15:09

humbug said:
Yeah...

Look at the Q4 2021 Operating margins ($3.8 Billion, 37%) to Q4 2022 ($0.7 Billion 11%)

That's serious. that's a very real problem, they can't keep going like this for long, the cash stash they would lean on to prop themselves up against this is already gone. If you can't generate any money after costs you can't R&D your next product. There's no money...

yep, It's going to be tough. Funding new FABS with 48Bn debt to service besides new 'super' products. Next Qtr. guidance is 10Bn sales and negative profit - that's not going to help.

Jeez, it's a mess.

Bencher · 27 Jan 2023 at 15:22

humbug said:
The 7900XT is over priced, though still better value than the 4080,

And the 4070ti is a way better value than both

But the whole post is confusing. If intel has lower margins than amd, doesnt that automatically mean that amd overcharges their products? I mean its common sense, no?

TrixP10 · 27 Jan 2023 at 15:41

Bencher said:
And the 4070ti is a way better value than both

But the whole post is confusing. If intel has lower margins than amd, doesnt that automatically mean that amd overcharges their products? I mean its common sense, no?

no

Eddie99 · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:00

Bencher said:
But the whole post is confusing. If intel has lower margins than amd, doesnt that automatically mean that amd overcharges their products? I mean its common sense, no?

No, it means Intel is undercharging to try and compete. A razor thin 11% margin is not the norm.

Bencher · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:11

Eddie99 said:
No, it means Intel is undercharging to try and compete. A razor thin 11% margin is not the norm.

Good, that's why I buy Intel, pay less - get more. I hope they keep on undercharging

TrixP10 · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:16

Bencher said:
Good, that's why I buy Intel, pay less - get more. I hope they keep on undercharging

LOL - so do I. (under charge I mean)

humbug · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:17

Bencher said:
Good, that's why I buy Intel, pay less - get more. I hope they keep on undercharging

Intel need to push margins up, preferably by improving their technology to be more cost efficient.

If they don't i don't know what will happen, worst case for them is becoming a fab only business making X86 products for AMD, i can't invision a world where AMD are the only X86 provider, but its possible.

Be careful what you wish for...

Bencher · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:17

TrixP10 said:
LOL - so do I.

Good for us consumers, I ordered pizza to celebrate. Let's hope next quarter Intel's margins shrink even more

Hotwired · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:18

Bencher said:
Good, that's why I buy Intel, pay less - get more. I hope they keep on undercharging

Err no. Undercharging doesn't guarantee YOU get a bargain it does guarantee THEY screw themselves.

humbug · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:19

Read above @Bencher

Eddie99 · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:19

Bencher said:
Good, that's why I buy Intel, pay less - get more. I hope they keep on undercharging

Problem is you don't get more though, AMD has higher margins at the same price because they are able to make them more efficiently than Intel.

Bencher · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:20

humbug said:
Intel need to push margins up, preferably by improving their technology to be more cost efficient.

If they don't i don't know what will happen, worst case for them is becoming a fab only business making X86 products for AMD, i can't invision a world where AMD are the only X86 provider, but its possible.

Be careful what you wish for...

Let me put it as simple as humanly possible. The only reason amd exists in the consumer space, is thanks to TSMC. With nm parity, they absolutely stand no chance, and it's clear to see for everyone that's not absolutely blinded with bias. Even the 3d cache was a TSM eureka moment. AMD wouldn't have a single competitive product in the desktop market without TSMC's fab superiority. How long that exists, no idea either, let's hope it does for the sake of amd else we will be back to the bulldozer days.

Now whether the desktop / DIY market is that small that's irrelevant, I don't know

Bencher · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:22

Eddie99 said:
Problem is you don't get more though, AMD has higher margins at the same price because they are able to make them more efficiently than Intel.

But of course you do. Intel were selling you 14cores for the same price amd has 6. Enough said I think, no? MT benchmarks between these two speak for themselves

humbug · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:22

Bencher said:
Let me put it as simple as humanly possible. The only reason amd exists in the consumer space, is thanks to TSMC. With nm parity, they absolutely stand no chance, and it's clear to see for everyone that's not absolutely blinded with bias. Even the 3d cache was a TSM eureka moment. AMD wouldn't have a single competitive product in the desktop market without TSMC's fab superiority.

Now whether the desktop / DIY market is that small that's irrelevant, I don't know

It never just one thing. The truth is somewhere in between, yes TSMC have better fabs, but AMD MCM and 3D stacking technology is just as important.

Bencher · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:24

humbug said:
It never just one thing. The truth is somewhere in between, yes TSMC have better fabs, but AMD MCM and 3D stacking technology is just as important.

But 3d stacking had nothing to do with AMD, it was all TSMC.

TrixP10 · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:25

Hotwired said:
Err no. Undercharging doesn't guarantee YOU get a bargain it does guarantee THEY screw themselves.

exactly, nice. Reap what you sow.

humbug · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:25

Bencher said:
But 3d stacking had nothing to do with AMD, it was all TSMC.

TSMC manufacture AMD CPU's, they don't design them.

Bencher · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:27

humbug said:
TSMC manufacture AMD CPU's, they don't design them.

The 3d stacking and packaging is all TSMC. It's not AMD's invention. I don't know how else to explain it, it's like saying 3nm CPU's is apple's innovation. It isn't.

humbug · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:28

Bencher said:
The 3d stacking and packaging is all TSMC. It's not AMD's invention. I don't know how else to explain it, it's like saying 3nm CPU's is apple's innovation. It isn't.

If that were true TSMC would not need AMD, we would have TSMC branded Ryzen 7950X3D's....

Come on, you're not thinking this through properly.

Bencher · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:32

humbug said:
If that were true TSMC would not need AMD, we would have TSMC branded Ryzen 7950X3D's....

Come on, you're not thinking this through properly.

So why aren't we seeing 3nm TSMC branded M2s and M2ultra? Come on, it's you that are not thinking this properly.

TSMC managed to crack the 3d stacking and packaging technology and offered that service to their clients. Just like they offer 7nm, 5nm, 3nm fabs. What's the difference?

https://3dfabric.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/3DFabric.htm

TSMC's 3DFabric offers our customers the ultimate flexibility in product design, brings packaging technologies to the forefront for innovation, and are critical to a product's performance, function and cost: