AMD on the road to recovery.

humbug · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:36

Bencher said:
So why aren't we seeing 3nm TSMC branded M2s and M2ultra? Come on, it's you that are not thinking this properly.

TSMC managed to crack the 3d stacking and packaging technology and offered that service to their clients. Just like they offer 7nm, 5nm, 3nm fabs. What's the difference?

https://3dfabric.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/3DFabric.htm

TSMC's 3DFabric offers our customers the ultimate flexibility in product design, brings packaging technologies to the forefront for innovation, and are critical to a product's performance, function and cost:

They have the packaging technology, it takes a CPU architect (this being AMD) to design the product.

I can design an NVMe external storage housing that can regulate the NMVe drives temperatures to keep it at optimal performance, send the CAD to a Chinese manufacture, not just any, one with the tooling to make the product, but that is their part in it, they make it, i designed it.

TrixP10 · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:37

Bencher said:
Let me put it as simple as humanly possible. The only reason amd exists in the consumer space, is thanks to TSMC. With nm parity, they absolutely stand no chance, and it's clear to see for everyone that's not absolutely blinded with bias. Even the 3d cache was a TSM eureka moment. AMD wouldn't have a single competitive product in the desktop market without TSMC's fab superiority. How long that exists, no idea either, let's hope it does for the sake of amd else we will be back to the bulldozer days.

Now whether the desktop / DIY market is that small that's irrelevant, I don't know

AMD went to TSMC after Intel's attempt to bankrupt them.
Maybe now AMD should pay (bribe) retailers and OEM's to only supply AMD products
Know what I mean. Seems fair to me.

Bencher · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:38

humbug said:
They have the packaging technology, it takes a CPU architect (this being AMD) to design the product.

I can design an NVMe external storage housing that can regulate the NMVe drives temperatures to keep it at optimal performance, send the CAD to a Chinese manufacture, not just any, one with the tooling to make the product, but that is their part in it, they make it, i designed it.

Nobody said TSMC designed the product. But you can design all you want, without TSMC you are left with waste of paper.

I still don't get why you brought the TSMC 7950x example. Where are the TSMC M2's then?

humbug · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:39

Bencher said:
Nobody said TSMC designed the product. But you can design all you want, without TSMC you are left with waste of paper.

I still don't get why you brought the TSMC 7950x example. Where are the TSMC M2's then?

OMfG.......!

Bencher · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:40

TrixP10 said:
AMD went to TSMC after Intel's attempt to bankrupt them.
Maybe now AMD should pay (bribe) retailers and OEM's to only supply AMD products
Know what I mean. Seems fair to me.

I don't know why people keep repeating this nonsense, but that never happened. Intel won the appeal and they are innocent. I don't know why people cant leave their bias aside and argue the facts. I mean come on now, it's like someone accusing you of murder, you are found innocent and then me bringing up for the next 20 years that you murdered someone, when in fact you didn't.

Intel Wins Appeal of Billion-Dollar EU Fine for Antitrust Actions Against AMD

EU court rules chip rebates not anticompetitive

www.tomshardware.com

humbug · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:46

Bencher said:
I don't know why people keep repeating this nonsense, but that never happened. Intel won the appeal and they are innocent. I don't know why people cant leave their bias aside and argue the facts. I mean come on now, it's like someone accusing you of murder, you are found innocent and then me bringing up for the next 20 years that you murdered someone, when in fact you didn't.

Intel Wins Appeal of Billion-Dollar EU Fine for Antitrust Actions Against AMD

EU court rules chip rebates not anticompetitive

www.tomshardware.com

Bencher said:
Good, that's why I buy Intel, pay less - get more. I hope they keep on undercharging

You know what? Yeah keep going Intel..... I'm loosing my empathy here.

humbug · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:48

Edited ^^^^ was the wrong quote.

TrixP10 · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:48

Bencher said:
I don't know why people keep repeating this nonsense, but that never happened. Intel won the appeal and they are innocent. I don't know why people cant leave their bias aside and argue the facts. I mean come on now, it's like someone accusing you of murder, you are found innocent and then me bringing up for the next 20 years that you murdered someone, when in fact you didn't.

Intel Wins Appeal of Billion-Dollar EU Fine for Antitrust Actions Against AMD

EU court rules chip rebates not anticompetitive

www.tomshardware.com

It did happen. There is plenty of evidence.
Intel used their usual dirty tricks. I know from experience. Intel just appealed and appealed and bought their way out.
That, my friend, is fact.

Eddie99 · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:50

Bencher said:
I don't know why people keep repeating this nonsense, but that never happened. Intel won the appeal and they are innocent. I don't know why people cant leave their bias aside and argue the facts. I mean come on now, it's like someone accusing you of murder, you are found innocent and then me bringing up for the next 20 years that you murdered someone, when in fact you didn't.

Intel Wins Appeal of Billion-Dollar EU Fine for Antitrust Actions Against AMD

EU court rules chip rebates not anticompetitive

www.tomshardware.com

Are Intel paying you to write this rubbish?

humbug · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:51

TrixP10 said:
It did happen. There is plenty of evidence.
Intel used their usual dirty tricks. I know from experience. Intel just appealed and appealed and bought their way out.
That, my friend, is fact.

Let them, this isn't the early 2000's, Intel have already all but destroyed themselves sticking with these tactics, maybe another X86 competitor will rise from Intel's ashes.

TrixP10 · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:53

Perhaps he is too young to know or just doesn't want his team to be seen for what they are / were.

Bencher · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:53

The freaking EU court says you are WRONG, but nope, let's put our own personal bias in front of FACTS. From the EU court nonetheless. I wonder if AMD was taken to court and deemed innocent from the EU court, would you have the same stance? Of course you wouldn't.

This is downright pathetic, going against court decisions cause deep down you don't care about what's true, you just want to blame Intel out of some personal vendetta. Im out, don't quote me, this is absolutely absurd

humbug · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:55

humbug said:
The proof is in the margins, Intel are having to sell ever lower to compete with AMD, they have already said this themselves, the margins on 13'th gen are virtually nothing, Intel's data-centre turnover is 4X as high as AMD's but they are only making a third as much profit from that as AMD, Intel make $200 Million from $4.5 Billion turn over in a quarter while AMD make $500 million profit from $1.6 Billion turnover.

Intel are no longer pulling all the leavers to stop AMD, they are just trying to stay relevant, that slide where Intel compared their cash stack to AMD's, remember that? Its all gone, guess what happened to it...

@Bencher AMD are laughing at Intel.

TrixP10 · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:56

Bencher said:
The freaking EU court says you are WRONG, but nope, let's put our own personal bias in front of FACTS. From the EU court nonetheless. I wonder if AMD was taken to court and deemed innocent from the EU court, would you have the same stance? Of course you wouldn't.

This is downright pathetic, going against court decisions cause deep down you don't care about what's true, you just want to blame Intel out of some personal vendetta. Im out, don't quote me, this is absolutely absurd

not personal bias my friend. I was there. I worked for an OEM at the time.

Eddie99 · 27 Jan 2023 at 16:59

Bencher said:
The freaking EU court says you are WRONG, but nope, let's put our own personal bias in front of FACTS. From the EU court nonetheless. I wonder if AMD was taken to court and deemed innocent from the EU court, would you have the same stance? Of course you wouldn't.

This is downright pathetic, going against court decisions cause deep down you don't care about what's true, you just want to blame Intel out of some personal vendetta. Im out, don't quote me, this is absolutely absurd

"EU throws out Intel antitrust fine"

next day

"Intel announces new chip manufacturing in the EU"

Bencher · 27 Jan 2023 at 17:09

Eddie99 said:
"EU throws out Intel antitrust fine"

next day

"Intel announces new chip manufacturing in the EU"

So maybe EU took Intel to court to force them to build a fab in EU. I can make up stuff easily as well, that's not the hard part.

Did you actually read the freaking case? Of course you didn't, why would you, Intel = bad AMD = good. The court decided, with actual HARD numbers, that regardless whether Intel's practices were anticompetitive or not, they did no damage to AMD, cause AMD didn't have the capacity to actually sell more CPU's than they already did. They didn't have the production to cover the demand required.

But nevermind that, stick to Intel = bad. Good day to you

humbug · 27 Jan 2023 at 17:12

Bencher said:
So maybe EU took Intel to court to force them to build a fab in EU. I can make up stuff easily as well, that's not the hard part.

Did you actually read the freaking case? Of course you didn't, why would you, Intel = bad AMD = good. The court decided, with actual HARD numbers, that regardless whether Intel's practices were anticompetitive or not, they did no damage to AMD, cause AMD didn't have the capacity to actually sell more CPU's than they already did. They didn't have the production to cover the demand required.

But nevermind that, stick to Intel = bad. Good day to you

AMD offered a million CPU's to Dell, FOR FREE, Dell turned them down, telling AMD "we would lose money" that's how AMD knew something was up, so they ran an investigation and found that Intel had been paying OEM's not to use AMD CPU's, Dell was a witness to that in court.

TrixP10 · 27 Jan 2023 at 17:14

Bencher said:
So maybe EU took Intel to court to force them to build a fab in EU. I can make up stuff easily as well, that's not the hard part.

Did you actually read the freaking case? Of course you didn't, why would you, Intel = bad AMD = good. The court decided, with actual HARD numbers, that regardless whether Intel's practices were anticompetitive or not, they did no damage to AMD, cause AMD didn't have the capacity to actually sell more CPU's than they already did. They didn't have the production to cover the demand required.

But nevermind that, stick to Intel = bad. Good day to you

£200m per month to Dell and chips for free, did you read that bit.
Nah, money talks my friend.

Bencher · 27 Jan 2023 at 17:28

TrixP10 said:
£200m per month to Dell and chips for free, did you read that bit.
Nah, money talks my friend.

I guess you read every bit, except the part they were innocent. Sad

Bencher · 27 Jan 2023 at 17:31

humbug said:
AMD offered a million CPU's to Dell, FOR FREE, Dell turned them down, telling AMD "we would lose money" that's how AMD knew something was up, so they ran an investigation and found that Intel had been paying OEM's not to use AMD CPU's, Dell was a witness to that in court.

And still they didn't do anything illegal. I don't even know why you insist, the EU court found them innocent, what else can someone do to prove his innocence to you? You have to realize what you are doing is actually bonkers, and you wouldn't be doing that if it was amd instead. I can't fathom how you can, with a straight face, just discount EU high courts decision and go with your own personal biased beliefs. Don't you understand how ridiculous that is?