AMD Polaris architecture – GCN 4.0

[N19h7m4r3]

If AMD pulled their finder out and actually went to Apple to sell the technology Apple would give AMD a pile of cash for exclusive IP rights and drop Intel from all their systems virtually overnight.
Intel only put these huge iGPU's on their chips because Apple said "your CPU's are fine but AMD's iGPU's are much better"

AMD are useless at that ^^^
Or maybe they have, maybe in a years time everything Apple will have HSA enabled Zen chips in them.

That could certainly happen, although the volume needed for it would certainly be very high; and Zen needs to be a success before it could happen as well. Not just comparative to Intel's current line up as well, but better; or at least use less power for similar performance.

When the 2013 Mac Pro launched the 6 core variant with two AMD FirePro D700's cost less than buying two desktop FirePro W9000's and they were essentially the same chips. So AMD are selling at silly low prices.

If Polaris and Zen are winners I could clearly see Apple taking a massive interest, but only if AMD can also supply the volume needed.

It would be amazing seen an all AMD HSA laptop or desktop from them though.

 

[D.P.]

HSA could be a really huge deal for a company with such control over the software used on their laptops. A Zen APU with HSA and a company like Apple to optimise their tougher software to make use of the gpu, unified memory, hbm2 on die, Zen could be extremely interesting for Apple in terms of achievable performance. There are already a few minimal things that run insanely well using HSA, with a competive single thread performance and a up to date gpu, modern process, they could be absolutely killer.

Thing is if Apple decided to do that then a lot of competitive software suites for PCs would have to follow suit in terms of optimising gpu acceleration and you suddenly have demand for Zen all over the place.

Yes, but none of that is in the time frame the article was talkign about. Apple wont be able to switch to Zen this summer AFAIK, so a ZEN-based APU wont be competing against an Intel APU with Iris Pro like Humbug suggested.

For the time being Apple will go along with Intel CPUs and have the option of the AMD dGPU in some models, exactly as Andy was pointing out.


Next year things will hopefully change, but that will largely depend on how good Zen is, kind of prices AMD will get them out at, and any progress form intel.

I'm hoping Zen lives up to the hype though.

 

[humbug]

Yes, but none of that is in the time frame the article was talkign about. Apple wont be able to switch to Zen this summer AFAIK, so a ZEN-based APU wont be competing against an Intel APU with Iris Pro like Humbug suggested.

For the time being Apple will go along with Intel CPUs and have the option of the AMD dGPU in some models, exactly as Andy was pointing out.


Next year things will hopefully change, but that will largely depend on how good Zen is, kind of prices AMD will get them out at, and any progress form intel.

I'm hoping Zen lives up to the hype though.

I didn't say this year.

Its only because Intel have a huge node advantage that they can make very big iGPU's as a brute force measure to compete with AMD.

14nm CGN4 Zen APU's with HBM would blow Iris Pros out of the water at half the size.
They may perform as well as some of the discrete GPU's Apple would otherwise use, they are going to be at least 2.5x as fast per-size as current APU's wich are A' on 32nm, B' strangles by DDR3 and C' GCN1.1.

 

[andybird123]

MacBook = 2 variants: Intel only
MacBook Air = 2 variants: Intel only
MacBook Pro = 2 variants: Intel Iris Pro or R9 M370X
iMac 21.5" 4K = 3 variants: Intel only
iMac 27" 5K = 3 variants: M380 - M390 - M395

So no, "AMD are also already the only option in Apple's range" they are an option in 4 out of Apples 12 in range.

If AMD can kick those Iris Pros out on the other 8 AMD will be sitting pretty.

I can't link Apples page cuz rulz, Google it.

FFS, clearly I meant that the products that have a discrete gpu only have AMD and not nvidia. AMD are the only discrete GPU supplier they use - it still makes sod all difference to AMD's sales figures.

Going forwards the situation is the same - Polaris is a discrete GPU and it'll be used in Mac books and I macs, the same as the 300 series and firepros they use now.

AMD aren't going to be kicking intel out of the intel only machines

 

[Davedree]

I didn't say this year.

Its only because Intel have a huge node advantage that they can make very big iGPU's as a brute force measure to compete with AMD.

14nm CGN4 Zen APU's with HBM would blow Iris Pros out of the water at half the size.
They may perform as well as some of the discrete GPU's Apple would otherwise use, they are going to be at least 2.5x as fast per-size as current APU's wich are A' on 32nm, B' strangles by DDR3 and C' GCN1.1.

Don't want to be picky, but you're stating kaveri which is 2 year old tech on 28nm not 32, the nearly year old carrizo is the current apu A=28nm (hdl), and C = Gcn 1.2 (hdmi 2.0, uvd 6 vce 3.1).
Which as you say is held back by crappy single channel ddr3.
Intel gt4e is brute but it's far superior to Amd due to memory bandwidth capability.

Even when AMD used to own the highest performing igp crown which was quite a few years ago now, Llano was cancelled at the last minute by APple. I agree with you 14nm is the best chance AMd have been given but they must execute with outright precision.

 

[D.P.]

I didn't say this year.

Its only because Intel have a huge node advantage that they can make very big iGPU's as a brute force measure to compete with AMD.

14nm CGN4 Zen APU's with HBM would blow Iris Pros out of the water at half the size.
They may perform as well as some of the discrete GPU's Apple would otherwise use, they are going to be at least 2.5x as fast per-size as current APU's wich are A' on 32nm, B' strangles by DDR3 and C' GCN1.1.

Yes, but the current discussion was whether Apple using AMD mGPU parts would improve AMD's finances. As Andy points out, it wont make any differences at all for the time being. The intel Irs pro AMD's will continue to be the same after the new releases.

 

[humbug]

Don't want to be picky, but you're stating kaveri which is 2 year old tech on 28nm not 32, the nearly year old carrizo is the current apu A=28nm (hdl), and C = Gcn 1.2 (hdmi 2.0, uvd 6 vce 3.1).
Which as you say is held back by crappy single channel ddr3.
Intel gt4e is brute but it's far superior to Amd due to memory bandwidth capability.

Even when AMD used to own the highest performing igp crown which was quite a few years ago now, Llano was cancelled at the last minute by APple. I agree with you 14nm is the best chance AMd have been given but they must execute with outright precision.

This is my point, without the DDR3 bottleneck A10 7870K 28nm would probably perform about the same as a HD6200, @ 14nm HBM and GCN4 Zen APU's should easily double Iris Pro HD6200 performance at the same TDP. Especially if AMD are going to be knocking out 50 Watt Equivalent GTX 950's.
Iris Pro is like a GTX 250.

 

[thenoseknows]

What's the difference between Polaris and Arctic Islands?

 

[pandem0nium]

Don't want to be picky, but you're stating kaveri which is 2 year old tech on 28nm not 32, the nearly year old carrizo is the current apu A=28nm (hdl), and C = Gcn 1.2 (hdmi 2.0, uvd 6 vce 3.1).
Which as you say is held back by crappy single channel ddr3.
Intel gt4e is brute but it's far superior to Amd due to memory bandwidth capability.

Even when AMD used to own the highest performing igp crown which was quite a few years ago now, Llano was cancelled at the last minute by APple. I agree with you 14nm is the best chance AMd have been given but they must execute with outright precision.

Desktop carrizo isn't limited to single channel.

 

[Davedree]

Desktop carrizo isn't limited to single channel.

Apart from the lenovo y700 laptop and an oem dell or the merlin falcon which isn't commercial I don't know of any carrizo chips that have been released as desktop parts. I'm happy to be proven wrong but even if my single ddr3 comment is true, even a dual channel ddr3 and the theory of gcn 1.2 memory compression will not solve the bandwidth issue. Ddr4 which is stoney ridge( correction bristol ridge )will also be a hindrance

 

[Davedree]

This is my point, without the DDR3 bottleneck A10 7870K 28nm would probably perform about the same as a HD6200, @ 14nm HBM and GCN4 Zen APU's should easily double Iris Pro HD6200 performance at the same TDP. Especially if AMD are going to be knocking out 50 Watt Equivalent GTX 950's.
Iris Pro is like a GTX 250.

You're forgetting that the iris pro 580 is a 72 eu igp =gt4e which is around 945m
The hd6200 you are referring to is a gt3e =48 eu igp around 750m.
I agree though amd should easily get it back and provide gcn 260/260x performance if they use hbm.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Apart from the lenovo y700 laptop and an oem dell or the merlin falcon which isn't commercial I don't know of any carrizo chips that have been released as desktop parts. I'm happy to be proven wrong but even if my single ddr3 comment is true, even a dual channel ddr3 and the theory of gcn 1.2 memory compression will not solve the bandwidth issue. Ddr4 which is stoney ridge( correction bristol ridge )will also be a hindrance

It is dual channel but AMD ***** up by having non representative hardware for that AT article. In another NBC review,they actually provided another SODIMM so the review could run a Carrizo chip in dual channel!!

 

[Davedree]

It is dual channel but AMD ***** up by having non representative hardware for that AT article. In another NBC review,they actually provided another SODIMM so the review could run a Carrizo chip in dual channel!!

Ok so that at article that I read way back is now irrelevant?
I thought that oems restricted the retail boards to single channel and severe tdp restrictions?
Do you have a link to the updated ammendment?

Anyway desktop carrizo with an igp doesn't yet exist.
And even if it did ddr3 dual channel is still insufficient. Bristol ridge will have ddr4 but it's not going to be a game changer to convince apple it's a gt4e contender.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Ok so that at article that I read way back is now irrelevant?
I thought that oems restricted the retail boards to single channel and severe tdp restrictions?
Do you have a link to the updated ammendment?

Anyway desktop carrizo with an igp doesn't yet exist.
And even if it did ddr3 dual channel is still insufficient. Bristol ridge will have ddr4 but it's not going to be a game changer to convince apple it's a gt4e contender.

It was all a mess as they then changed part of it to say some models can,but the NBC article was months before the AT article with NBC saying AMD supplied a SODIMM to run the RAM in dual channel.

It was AMD PR screwing up in the details again. It has just put off anybody wanting to buy a Carrizo based laptop.

 

[Davedree]

Ok fair enough, i've always wanted a carrizo laptop but they aren't to my spec.

 

[skylinestar]

Since the new Polaris is very power efficient (if <150W TDP is true), is there still a need for >600W PSU for a new Polaris-ready PC build? Heck even 600W might be enough for AMD Crossfire.

 

[Relentless81]

Since the new Polaris is very power efficient (if <150W TDP is true), is there still a need for >600W PSU for a new Polaris-ready PC build? Heck even 600W might be enough for AMD Crossfire.

This something I was wondering too, I have a 750W that I want to replace, seems like a high quality 550W will be enough for a build with a Polaris GPU?

 

[Kaapstad]

Since the new Polaris is very power efficient (if <150W TDP is true), is there still a need for >600W PSU for a new Polaris-ready PC build? Heck even 600W might be enough for AMD Crossfire.

These Polaris cards will be mid range, we won't see the full fat cards until next year probably.

When the full fat cards do turn up they will be just as power hungry as the existing full fat Maxwell/Fiji cards.

 

[pandem0nium]

Apart from the lenovo y700 laptop and an oem dell or the merlin falcon which isn't commercial I don't know of any carrizo chips that have been released as desktop parts. I'm happy to be proven wrong but even if my single ddr3 comment is true, even a dual channel ddr3 and the theory of gcn 1.2 memory compression will not solve the bandwidth issue. Ddr4 which is stoney ridge( correction bristol ridge )will also be a hindrance

The athlon 845 and 835 on fm 2+. But yeah, no igp of course.

 

[Davedree]

The athlon 845 and 835 on fm 2+. But yeah, no igp of course.

Lol yeah the lack of igp is my point, but i'll give you the dual channel memory part.