Poll: AMD Screws Gamers: Sponsorships Likely Block DLSS

[Nexus18]

Again where is the smoking gun? All you have posted are speculations from different people/outlets not cold hard facts. If this John person you write about have put forward proper evidence then why not just link/share that instead? then this discussion would be over.

Nobody is saying that FSR is as good(as in 100% the same result) as DLSS in their latest iterations but that is not the point and you seem to somehow forget that. It doesn't matter what AMD wants here as they don't have the weight yet to throw around like Nvidia does. Have it ever occurred to you that maybe the developers thought that the deal AMD was offering(and not at gun point) was good enough and therefor they(the devs) where the deciding factor on what kind of upscaling ended up in their game? Bethesda and its parent company are not small potatoes, they have enough money to choose whatever they want if they think it would be a benefit to their end goals. You ask why not just implement all 3? simple answer could be time. It could also be due to an arrangement, we just dont know and thats the whole point, just a lot of speculation. I know from when I was working as a programmer that we didn't want to implement several systems doing the same thing unless it was the only way to reach the entire install base. If one solution could get the job done good enough then that is what we used. Time = Money even if it is only 2-3 days in your mind.

And before someone gets the cute idea that this is a defense of AMDs "wrongdoings" let me just shut down that down. It's about the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" Emphasis on the proven part. Speculations is not equal evidence. It only serves as something to further investigate. Even if AMD has somehow managed to force Bethesda to only use FSR, how does equates to some sort of unfairness? is the technology in question not available to everyone? So you want them to include a technology for your own benefit that many can't use? that is somehow fair? This isn't about what is right or wrong. This is purely about entitlement.

John is a credible source (from DF), again, this isn't MLID where he spouts of any old crap to see what sticks to the wall. I'll take his along with gamer nexus and hub etc. view points on this matter over randoms on forum trying to make excuses for amd:

https://twitter.com/dark1x?lang=en

And again, this speaks a thousand words...

Stop making excuses here, amd got caught red handed, the community/tech press called them out and now they are having to change their stance hence how ever since being called out, a good % of amd sponsored games have dlss now.... funny that eh?

As shown and proven, time is not a reason at all..... you're not talking about some huge piece of work to implement dlss for the pc base..... I work in development so have a pretty good idea how things like this get assigned and prioritised, this is the kind of work you would pass onto some junior developer or even an intern (who don't cost anything for their time) given how easy it would be to do compared to other more pressing matters which is where the more experienced/senior devs will be allocated and as you said it yourself, we're not talking about some startup company here either.... Again, you forget that some modder was able to do this in one day..... EDIT: iirc, he actually stated himself, it was 30 minutes of work.

Yes it is all "speculation" regarding starfield and dlss absence but the facts or rather a huge amount of evidence and claims from credible sources are there regarding the "removal" of dlss in other amd sponsored games.

Again why did amd when first asked on this not just come out there and then to say what they said in their live show?

Lmao, entitlement because people who could have the "choice" to choose what works best for their hardware don't like being forced to use an inferior/lesser version? Had only DLSS been included then your last point would be valid as the people who can't use dlss would indeed be "locked" out but alas, that is why you implement both/all options so people can choose what works best for them, isn't that what PC is all about? If people want amd deciding what is best for them then perhaps console is the more appropriate platform.

EDIT:

Also, this is extremely silly to have this outlook

innocent until proven guilty

You shouldn't be assuming amd are squeaky clean, same way nvidia have done dodgy **** but they've never actually been fully "proven to be guilty".... but that doesn't stop people from jumping on the "nvidia bad" bandwagon,....

 

[Nexus18]

Sounds like the new version of 'trust me bro'

Gamer nexus now nvidia shills then? We should have a list compiling who is and isn't amd/nvidia shills, I'm losing track of this now

 

[Gerard]

Regardless of which side of the fence you fall on this topic, upscaling tech is the best thing to happen to AAA devs because it means they can shovel their **** out the door with even less quality control than usual, and that was already a staggeringly low bar.

We have 'Uncle Jensen' to thank for that, shoehorning raytracing in at least a decade too early because they didn't have anything else for the tensor cores to do. So now devs reap the benefit of half arsing optimisation, and its lead to yet more entrenched ******* wars on forums about who does what better. Just what the gpu segment needed, more for people with FAR too much time on their hands to argue about on forums.

 

[Harlequin]

Gamer nexus now nvidia shills then? We should have a list compiling who is and isn't amd/nvidia shills, I'm losing track of this now

John is not a credible source and neither is digital shilleries

 

[Grim5]

John is not a credible source and neither is digital shilleries

Digital foundry are the best in the business whether you like it or not

 

[Nexus18]

John is not a credible source and neither is digital shilleries

Because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Again, people with views like this are more than welcome to post some evidence etc. to debunk their videos but alas, we will all keep on waiting for this to happen some day

What about gamer nexus statement on the matter?

Reckon they were maybe paid by nvidia to kick start this?

We have 'Uncle Jensen' to thank for that, shoehorning raytracing in at least a decade too early because they didn't have anything else for the tensor cores to do. So now devs reap the benefit of half arsing optimisation, and its lead to yet more entrenched ******* wars on forums about who does what better. Just what the gpu segment needed, more for people with FAR too much time on their hands to argue about on forums.

And had nvidia not started the ray tracing revolution, we would be stuck with ancient outdated raster methods for even longer, as shown time and time gain, we have to rely on nvidia to do the innovating/kicking new things into action otherwise we would never get progress.

 

[Harlequin]

Digital foundry are the best in the business whether you like it or not

No they are not. They are paid for shills of the highest order. 8k gaming? yup we`ll do that the day before anyone else who are paid to do it. Sorry you dont like the truth

 

[Harlequin]

Because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Again, people with views like this are more than welcome to post some evidence etc. to debunk their videos but alas, we will all keep on waiting for this to happen some day

What about gamer nexus statement on the matter?

Reckon they were maybe paid by nvidia to kick start this?



And had nvidia not started the ray tracing revolution, we would be stuck with ancient outdated raster methods for even longer, as shown time and time gain, we have to rely on nvidia to do the innovating/kicking new things into action otherwise we would never get progress.

Again they are the paid for PR company of nvidia. Sorry you dont like the truth; they literally slate AMD on everything all the time, even when it is better (Ryzen for example)

 

[Gerard]

And had nvidia not started the ray tracing revolution, we would be stuck with ancient outdated raster methods for even longer, as shown time and time gain, we have to rely on nvidia to do the innovating/kicking new things into action otherwise we would never get progress.

Doesn't take away from the fact it was introduced far too early, hence the dlss\fsr ******* contests you constantly engage in. Ray tracing was going to happen at some point as it was a logical step in graphics. As for nvidia 'innovating' on it, if they hadn't had tensor cores with nothing to do they wouldn't have bothered their arse.

 

[Nexus18]

No they are not. They are paid for shills of the highest order. 8k gaming? yup we`ll do that the day before anyone else who are paid to do it. Sorry you dont like the truth

Again they are the paid for PR company of nvidia. Sorry you dont like the truth; they literally slate AMD on everything all the time, even when it is better (Ryzen for example)

You can be paid but that doesn't necessarily mean that their analytical footage/evidence isn't valid.

Again, you're more than welcome to post up some stuff along with evidence to debunk them, shouldn't be too hard if what they show/say are lies?

Guessing you didn't see their footage/thoughts on fsr 3 then?

AMD reveals long-awaited FSR 3 tech and frame gen for every DX11/DX12 game

DF goes 'eyes on' with FSR 3 - and a new AMD frame-gen solution that works with every DX11 and DX12 game.

www.eurogamer.net

Sure is trashing amd there aren't they.....

Doesn't take away from the fact it was introduced far too early, hence the dlss\fsr ******* contests you constantly engage in. Ray tracing was going to happen at some point as it was a logical step in graphics. Ass for nvidia 'innovating' on it, if they hadn't had tensor cores with nothing to do they wouldn't have bothered their arse.

I wouldn't say far too early.... it sounds like you're only looking at bad ray tracing examples (where RT was clearly just tacked on e.g. star wars) and not the good ones especially ones like metro ee which are a technically masterpiece in the grand scheme of things (consoles can run it at 60 fps @ 4k)

There are games out which are 100% raster and run like **** (some even worse than ray/path tracing games....) and still need upscaling....

 

[Gerard]

I wouldn't say far too early.... it sounds like you're only looking at bad ray tracing examples (where RT was clearly just tacked on e.g. star wars) and not the good ones especially ones like metro ee which are a technically masterpiece in the grand scheme of things (consoles can run it at 60 fps @ 4k)

There are games out which are 100% raster and run like **** (some even worse than ray/path tracing games....) and still need upscaling....

The simple fact we have fsr and dlss is proof positive that it was introduced far too early or we'd have no need of upscaling tech to get games using it to run at acceptable framerates.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Gamer nexus now nvidia shills then? We should have a list compiling who is and isn't amd/nvidia shills, I'm losing track of this now

After the Linus tech tips fiasco and the way GN compiled the video and delivered the information. I’ve come to realise that GN is not as transparent or as balanced as people try to portray him. He likes to stir the pot, and cause drama.

I believe I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but we never got down to the bottom of whether or not the DLSS license causes issues with AMD sponsorship. The answer that Nvidia gave to GN (i think) was a wishy washy non-committal answer. yet people lapped it up without a second thought because GN (I think) didn’t realise they were getting played and decided to add extra meaning to the answer that did not exist. Or they knew it was a non committal answer but had drama to farm, so farming they did.

 

[tommybhoy]

Empty threats got Nv absolutely no where!

 

[TNA]

What threats?

Not sure anything Nvidia could have done to dent this games sales in a meaningful manner.

 

[tommybhoy]

Figure of speech, the DLSS negativity got Nv and some of their self entitled userbase absolutely nowhere.

 

[Phixsator]

John is a credible source (from DF), again, this isn't MLID where he spouts of any old crap to see what sticks to the wall. I'll take his along with gamer nexus and hub etc. view points on this matter over randoms on forum trying to make excuses for amd:

https://twitter.com/dark1x?lang=en

Stop making excuses here, amd got caught red handed, the community/tech press called them out and now they are having to change their stance hence how ever since being called out, a good % of amd sponsored games have dlss now.... funny that eh?

As shown and proven, time is not a reason at all..... you're not talking about some huge piece of work to implement dlss for the pc base..... I work in development so have a pretty good idea how things like this get assigned and prioritised, this is the kind of work you would pass onto some junior developer or even an intern (who don't cost anything for their time) given how easy it would be to do compared to other more pressing matters which is where the more experienced/senior devs will be allocated and as you said it yourself, we're not talking about some startup company here either.... Again, you forget that some modder was able to do this in one day..... EDIT: iirc, he actually stated himself, it was 30 minutes of work.

Yes it is all "speculation" regarding starfield and dlss absence but the facts or rather a huge amount of evidence and claims from credible sources are there regarding the "removal" of dlss in other amd sponsored games.

Again why did amd when first asked on this not just come out there and then to say what they said in their live show?

Lmao, entitlement because people who could have the "choice" to choose what works best for their hardware don't like being forced to use an inferior/lesser version? Had only DLSS been included then your last point would be valid as the people who can't use dlss would indeed be "locked" out but alas, that is why you implement both/all options so people can choose what works best for them, isn't that what PC is all about? If people want amd deciding what is best for them then perhaps console is the more appropriate platform.

EDIT:

Also, this is extremely silly to have this outlook



You shouldn't be assuming amd are squeaky clean, same way nvidia have done dodgy **** but they've never actually been fully "proven to be guilty".... but that doesn't stop people from jumping on the "nvidia bad" bandwagon,....

You just don't understand my point do you? Let me try to spell this out for you one last time. I would advice you to read, take a break, and then respond. The point I'm trying to get across here is that there isn't any solid evidence. You have speculation and hearsay and you base your whole argument around a guy who is affiliated with a channel that has had questionable biases in the past. Have these 3 devs come forward by name and confirmed John's story? I just want solid evidence before we start stating things as facts. Are AMD "squaky clean"? Absolutely not and I've never said they were, so since you write the way you do suggest again to me that your biases are overpowering your capability to read and comprehend a different point of view. That I cannot help you with. I would suggest a beer and some R'n'R. There is a difference between saying "AMD has been caught" and "AMD is acting weird and I don't trust that".

Ohh and btw nvidia have been caught, several times now.
There was the 970 debacle.
There was the 1030 debacle.
There was the 4080 12G debacle.
There was the whole driver lockdown on PhysX causing you to not be able to use a feature you paid for if you also had a competitor's GPU in your system.

If we are to go by your own standards for "evidence"
Then there are also the EVGA debacle.
There are the Crysis tesselation debacle.
Then there are the HUB and Nvidia "scandale".
And the list goes on and on and on.

Anyway, enough of this nonsense. I'm gonna go get myself a beer. Cheers

 

[Nexus18]

Figure of speech, the DLSS negativity got Nv and some of their self entitled userbase absolutely nowhere.

Why would anyone boycott (assuming that is what you're referring to) when as we have seen, we can easily use dlss via a mod (most pc gamers will be doing this especially since beth games is all about the modding scene):

Personally I'm loving the game especially with being able to use the far superior upscaler now. I have got nothing against beth at all nor what amd "potentially" did as this is just how these multi billion companies work, I know, it's shocking isn't it.

 

[Stanners]

let’s all play nicely

 

[Nexus18]

You just don't understand my point do you? Let me try to spell this out for you one last time. I would advice you to read, take a break, and then respond. The point I'm trying to get across here is that there isn't any solid evidence. You have speculation and hearsay and you base your whole argument around a guy who is affiliated with a channel that has had questionable biases in the past. Have these 3 devs come forward by name and confirmed John's story? I just want solid evidence before we start stating things as facts. Are AMD "squaky clean"? Absolutely not and I've never said they were, so since you write the way you do suggest again to me that your biases are overpowering your capability to read and comprehend a different point of view. That I cannot help you with. I would suggest a beer and some R'n'R. There is a difference between saying "AMD has been caught" and "AMD is acting weird and I don't trust that".

Ohh and btw nvidia have been caught, several times now.
There was the 970 debacle.
There was the 1030 debacle.
There was the 4080 12G debacle.
There was the whole driver lockdown on PhysX causing you to not be able to use a feature you paid for if you also had a competitor's GPU in your system.

If we are to go by your own standards for "evidence"
Then there are also the EVGA debacle.
There are the Crysis tesselation debacle.
Then there are the HUB and Nvidia "scandale".
And the list goes on and on and on.

Anyway, enough of this nonsense. I'm gonna go get myself a beer. Cheers

No I get exactly what you are referring to, my last point sums this up perfectly:

You shouldn't be assuming amd are squeaky clean, same way nvidia have done dodgy **** but they've never actually been fully "proven to be guilty".... but that doesn't stop people from jumping on the "nvidia bad" bandwagon....

You are foolish to let amd of all because they have this PR image of being the good guy because of their "community driven approach and open source love" image they put on (which isn't by choice, it's because they can't go any other path due to their incredibly small market share and being last to the scene by several months/years AND with a lesser quality option..... and it's also their preference as for whatever reasons be that, not having the resources or not wanting to get bogged down with having to support solutions long term, they want a hands of approach too)

PS.

I'm not just basing it of "one" guy, I'm going based of facts as shown in that spreadsheet and well laid out reasoning by likes of GN, HUB etc. and also this article:

Boundary will no longer feature Ray Tracing, ditches DLSS over FSR & XeSS

Even though Surgical Scalpels showcased some really GPU-heavy RT effects for Boundary, the game will not feature any of them at launch.

www.dsogaming.com

Quite the u-turn and how very "AMD are just wonderful" PR focussed it is..... Oh and again, dlss not being some huge piece of work that takes more than 1 day for some random modder....

Modder says adding NVIDIA DLSS 2 and 3 support into Starfield will only take one day

Modder PureDark says that it will only take them a day to mod in NVIDIA DLSS 2 and 3 support into Starfield, though you'll need subscribe to get access.

www.tweaktown.com

 

[Harlequin]

Except the free mod is broken and DLSS 3 is behind a paywall....