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AMD to unveil Zen 4 CPUs at CES 2022

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Curlyriff said:
I really don't get why people are pretending that the results don't exist. As someone whom really likes my Ryzen system, has no issues buying is glad Intel have pushed and are slightly ahead. In fact wish they were further so AMD had something harder to respond too and push back harder themselves.

Want to see gains keep going forward and it drive innovation from both sides. Would love see a proper 3rd competitor even but that isn't likely in current climate.
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I do not think anyone is denying the fact that Intel currently have the better performance chips in the desktop market, in fact i even stated that in my post. It is the definition of "back on top" that is at question. For me personally that statement only becomes true with a degree of longevity and a coupe months is not that. For example Chelsea were top of the league for a few weeks, no one really thought they were "back on top" though as most would have conceded they were still some way behind Liverpool and City.

Whether it is Intel or AMD i do not buy into a platform based on a short term performance crown and do not buy a new system every 2 months. I will buy a system based on longevity of the platform and that is how i personally perceive "back on top"
 
The 12600K and 12700K are pretty good, better than AMD equivalents, even if you're an AMD fan or for whatever reason can't stand Intel you should be ok with this, AMD have plenty left in the tank and if AMD are smart they will use that, we all just get another step up... competition is good.

The 12900K is not so good, chaps, its no better for its job than the 5950X and it needs twice as much power to do it, guys, its not good.
 
cliffy said:
Intel are ahead at this moment in time on the performance front which is probably short lived but Intel are a long way behind AMD in the grand scheme of things. I know you will be upset by this but do not expect future AMD products to be cheaper either, while they are on top they will continue to charge a premium as is their right.
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Intels i5 and i7 CPUs are beating AMDs ryzen 5 and 7 by over 40% in MT while also leading in gaming and ST so I think it's AMD who are currently a long way behind.
 
humbug said:
Hyperbole, do you think AMD's task here is insurmountable?
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Well AMD certainly won't be overturning this margin without increasing core counts on their lower end parts even with Zen 4 and doing so they will have to keep the prices at similar levels to what they are now as its no good giving us an 8 core ryzen 5 that costs $400+.
 
Joxeon said:
Well AMD certainly won't be overturning this margin without increasing core counts on their lower end parts even with Zen 4.
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Agreed, and they will have to take a hit on margins, but when you're competitor is Intel and you have the headroom to put them behind you its not even a choice, its just something you have to do, hopefully AMD understand that by now...

Always keep at least 30% between yourself and Intel, its not even a choice.
 
Joxeon said:
Well AMD certainly won't be overturning this margin without increasing core counts on their lower end parts even with Zen 4.
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Pretty sure they are currently. What is AMD’s margin BTW?

Going out a limb, but seeing the recent level of emotion it’s more than Nvidia’s. Can’t Nvidia just increase prices?
 
humbug said:
Agreed, and they will have to take a hit on margins, but when you're competitor is Intel and you have the headroom to put them behind you its not even a choice, its just something you have to do, hopefully AMD understand that by now...

Always keep at least 30% between yourself and Intel, its not even a choice.
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Pretty sure AMD have a solid strategy. Moving to 6nm TSMC and Samsung to free up 7 and 5nm production for the high performance chips seems a really shrewd move.
 
jigger said:
Pretty sure AMD have a solid strategy. Moving to 6nm TSMC and Samsung to free up 7 and 5nm production for the high performance chips seems a really shrood move.
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Right, just "glue" the cache on them, move the entire tier down through the price stack, tweak every bit of low hanging fruit to get even more performance out of them, cut prices, IE the 5800X is now the 6600X and £250, move the rest of the stack accordingly and the 6950X now has 24 cores 48 threads blowing the 12900K completely out of the water, make enough of them to flood the market.

I've said it before, Intel need to fear challenging AMD for what they might do in return, for Intel to feel that AMD need to be super aggressive at every turn, they need to react like Gelsinger tortured Lisa Sue's Cat, like its personal.
 
Joxeon said:
Well AMD certainly won't be overturning this margin without increasing core counts on their lower end parts even with Zen 4 and doing so they will have to keep the prices at similar levels to what they are now as its no good giving us an 8 core ryzen 5 that costs $400+.
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"Even with Zen 4" do you have insider information? Do we already know that Zen 4 does not have increased core count? I expect Zen 3D will overtake Intel in ST performance or match it at least which will obviously be enough for games. Current range will just drop down a price point to accommodate Zen 3D
 
humbug said:
Right, just "glue" the cache on them, move the entire tier down through the price stack, tweak every bit of low hanging fruit to get even more performance out of them, cut prices, IE the 5800X is now the 6600X and £250, move the rest of the stack accordingly and the 6950X now has 24 cores 48 threads blowing the 12900K completely out of the water, make enough of them to flood the market.

I've said it before, Intel need to fear challenging AMD for what they might do in return, for Intel to feel that AMD need to be super aggressive at every turn, they need to react like Gelsinger tortured Lisa Sue's Cat, like its personal.
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Being limited to 8x Skylake cores + Atom mesh on 10nm limits Intel options. The 8 Skylake cores offer decent performance, but Intel badly needs a design that scales past 16 cores and a node that chip can be built on. It will take a while for Intel execute, and start making headway on AMD lead.

We know Intel’s Atom mesh can scale reasonably well and power use on 10nm isn’t terrible, but the latency and performance per mm2 is a problem as core counts increase. It’s a rock and hard place problem for Intel.
 
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