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AMD to unveil Zen 4 CPUs at CES 2022

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q974739 said:
One additional factor you've missed. If you have a compatible AMD motherboard, you don't need to rebuild your entire system - it's a drop in upgrade.

As an example - I was forced to build a new system (because lightning!) During the component crunch last year. Worst possible time. Resorted to a 3600 and a plain 2060, as the only bits I could get without weep-into-porridge levels of price. AMD chosen, despite being more expensive and not quite as good, because the 550 motherboard could take a 5x00 later - and maybe the next chip as well.

So the value comparison for me - and likely many others - is AMD chip Vs Whole System Build. And a couple of hours building, and inevitable small cuts.

Fully agree that it looks like that Intel win on many grounds (likely not VMs, heat) - but the starting point of "value" can be weird. It's possible that some posters are perhaps factoring that "free" motherboard in their internal maths, without thought?
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Oh yeah very different if you are upgrading from previous AMD CPU and there will be a lot of people in that boat but I don't think that should be a judgment of then CPU cost or system cost as whole when just doing a comparison.

It doesn't mean people looking at upgrade shouldn't factor that, deffo should but that is another group on top. To add to that there is also some value in PCIE options, M.2 slots and the like and what that value may be.

Edit: what I mean is people don't review and compare system costs assuming you upgrading. You do a review based on buying a system a or system b and then in the conclusion or as a footer you'd add that upgrading on an existing platform is something to consider.

It would be like having an electric car where you could upgrade the battery pack from one manufacture at £6k or buy a whole new car from another at £40k and say the upgrade is better value which is true in one context but isn't really comparative and you'd review the latest battery model car to the other when doing a review and price/cost as new in those terms.

Consumer purchase is different to thar of course.
 
Curlyriff said:
To add to that there is also some value in PCIE options, M.2 slots and the like and what that value may be.
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At which point you get grumps like me muttering about energy efficiency and heat output. At that level it's easy to subjective - gets very hard to differentiate between fanboy, person with honest debatable preference and Real Issue.

But it's certainly an interesting debate. Roll on next week. I want AMD to recapture the price/perf war, on AM4... for purely selfish reasons :D
 
q974739 said:
At which point you get grumps like me muttering about energy efficiency and heat output. At that level it's easy to subjective - gets very hard to differentiate between fanboy, person with honest debatable preference and Real Issue.

But it's certainly an interesting debate. Roll on next week. I want AMD to recapture the price/perf war, on AM4... for purely selfish reasons :D
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Haha indeed. I mean I've got no interest beyond just looking at it objectively cause I'm on a 5950x and would still now if anyone was buying a platform now be suggesting the 5800x with B550 currently as it has best price to performance now the price drops have happened last few days and Intels has gone up.

If it was 2 days ago or anytime in last 4 weeks it would have been the 12700k as they were similar price for more performance then. Hard to justify the extra now at current price points.

If you still just want best performance regardless of price the 12700k/12900k is that then.
 
Curlyriff said:
Just stop now. I mean seriously, yeah AMD had excellent run for 12 months. But Intel at moment are indeed on top in terms of performance and price to performance on all three chips they dropped.

That is the discussion. Not sales, not consumer purchasing, purely about the chips and their performance.

Just because something outsells another doesn't mean it is generally a better product. Betamax for instance was the superior tech to VHS, guess what we got?
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You can’t honestly believe this level Joxen. We get, AMD are hurting Nvidia and people are emotional. But don’t Joxen yourself.
 
jigger said:
You can’t honestly believe this level Joxen. We get, AMD are hurting Nvidia and people are emotional. But don’t Joxen yourself.
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I have no idea what you are saying. You seem to be ignoring 100% the product for an emotional response? I don't get thr AMD hurting Nvidia reference.

All I care about is the product, its price and its performance. I've got no skin into either product directly as I've got a 5950x and 6900xt and won't be upgrading till 2023 but burying head in sand about current product and price and performance here and now is daft.
 
Curlyriff said:
I have no idea what you are saying. You seem to be ignoring 100% the product for an emotional response? I don't get thr AMD hurting Nvidia reference.

All I care about is the product, its price and its performance. I've got no skin into either product directly as I've got a 5950x and 6900xt and won't be upgrading till 2023 but burying head in sand about current product and price and performance here and now is daft.
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That’s the thing, it’s so obvious the lead AMD holds that you must understand. Or you have no understanding what you’re arguing. People are emotional, but it’s going to be ok. Just don’t Joxen yourself. It’s terrible hill to die on.

Trying to project that AMD aren’t in particularly strong position is laughable. AMD will extend the leads they already have through 2022. Intel’s best hope for this year is to established itself in the graphics card market.
 
jigger said:
That’s the thing, it’s so obvious the lead AMD holds that you must understand. Or you have no understanding what you’re arguing. People are emotional, but it’s going to be ok. Just don’t Joxen yourself. It’s terrible hill to die on.

Trying to project that AMD aren’t in particularly strong position is laughable. AMD will extend the leads they already have through 2022. Intel’s best hope for this year is to established itself in the graphics card market.
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Again never said AMD are not in strong position or that they wont keep outselling Intel or even take the performance to cost crown back. In fact this morning with updated prices since yesterday the 5800x with B550 is much better value for monies than the 12700k with mobo because Intel prices gone up and AMD gone down over night at many places.

However that doesn't change the performance to price they have shown for a few months or that they are the faster consumer desktop CPU's on the market right now (that are not HEDT). That is what the discussion was about. Not market leader, not selling the most.

Purely the performance and performance to cost if you was looking to purchase a product new now.
 
Curlyriff said:
Again never said AMD are not in strong position or that they wont keep outselling Intel or even take the performance to cost crown back. In fact this morning with updated prices since yesterday the 5800x with B550 is much better value for monies than the 12700k with mobo because Intel prices gone up and AMD gone down over night at many places.

However that doesn't change the performance to price they have shown for a few months or that they are the faster consumer desktop CPU's on the market right now (that are not HEDT). That is what the discussion was about. Not market leader, not selling the most.

Purely the performance and performance to cost if you was looking to purchase a product new now.
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No your chums did. Maybe you should correct them?
They have no clue and are embarrassing.
 
jigger said:
No your chums did. Maybe you should correct them?
They have no clue and are embarrassing.
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The post that was above was literally showing the performance metric and discussing the price to performance side and that Intel currently are top in performance. Nothing else was stated with those slides which showed the performance or within those posts. And with that since I didn't say any of that and clearly made the post with it in regards to performance and price to performance then you said then sorry but you are just not capable of reading from what I can tell and would rather just have a back and forth.
 
jigger said:
You can’t honestly believe this level Joxen. We get, AMD are hurting Nvidia and people are emotional. But don’t Joxen yourself.
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Calm down Trigger, I know it's tough seeing AMD behind in performance and price in the desktop space but atleast the shareholders are ahead.
 
Joxeon said:
Calm down Trigger, I know it's tough seeing AMD behind in performance and price in the desktop space but atleast the shareholders are ahead.
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Intel are ahead at this moment in time on the performance front which is probably short lived but Intel are a long way behind AMD in the grand scheme of things. I know you will be upset by this but do not expect future AMD products to be cheaper either, while they are on top they will continue to charge a premium as is their right.
 
cliffy said:
Intel are ahead at this moment in time on the performance front which is probably short lived but Intel are a long way behind AMD in the grand scheme of things. I know you will be upset by this but do not expect future AMD products to be cheaper either, while they are on top they will continue to charge a premium as is their right.
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Again this all started in discussion of performance for a chip though and the current chips that are out. What it will be in 2 months or 9 months is currently irrelevant to the point that Intel are back on top on both performance, and until today on cost to performance where the 12700k has gone up and the 5800x has dropped. This will change when B660 boards drop unless the new AMD chips increase enough performance and come out at the current 5000 series market prices (they wont) so yeah Intel at this current time and the price to performance is likely to be with intel (upon said board releases) until the end of 2022 where currently it is anyone's guess where Intel and AMD will actually be at.

So that means we could have another 12 months of Intel providing on par performance to AMD (when Vcache chips drop) whilst at a better price to performance. That would be the same amount of time as where AMD have been with their Ryzen CPU's now.
 
I really don't get why people are pretending that the results don't exist. As someone whom really likes my Ryzen system, has no issues buying is glad Intel have pushed and are slightly ahead. In fact wish they were further so AMD had something harder to respond too and push back harder themselves.

Want to see gains keep going forward and it drive innovation from both sides. Would love see a proper 3rd competitor even but that isn't likely in current climate.
 
I still have an old GTX 560 sitting on the shelf above my work bech. Before I spend money on an expensive upgrade, I like to remind my self that no matter how strong or "premium" the part I'm getting ready to buy is right now, it will beecome obsolete. It's not a question of "if" but "when".

When Intel drops an i5 that games better than the 5800X I spent much more money on just months ago, I don't get defensive or angry.

This is how it's supposed to work in a healthy tech market. I hope AMD and Intel continue competing, driving performance up and prices down.
 
Yeah its repetition on the forum, cpu/gpu the normal spat is "if only brand x were better, then I wouldnt buy brand y".

Then brand x does improve, argument flips.

I think some just like to argue or side with a brand instead of embracing that the 'fight' is causing some innovation/improvements. The only gripe seems to be the price but we know all about that in many markets this past couple of years.
 
Twinz said:
cinebench-single.png
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WTF are you smoking?
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Why do TPU have the 5950X around 26K when every other review has it at 28K?
 
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