***AMD Trinity review thread***

[Martini1991]

In gaming they aren't. There's plenty of rumors suggesting highly threaded cpus with not impressive ipc.

CPU's are important in gaming on the PC.

And consoles are again, as said are different, the current CPU's in consoles aren't a patch on even anything AMD has out, that's the beauty with consoles, it's one set specification so they can work to that specification.
So it's easy to make a game to work around that highly threaded weak IPC CPU, but that can't then be compared to PC. If we tried to run games with PC's to the same spec as consoles we'd fall flat on our faces.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see AMD CPU's and GPU solutions being used in consoles, the Xenos has performed admirably for the Xbox 360, MS would be stupid not to go into another partnership in regards to consoles with AMD.

Why don't you wait for Vishera to be tested before jumping the gun and poor scorn on AMD.

You don't know anything about it yet to bash it with.

Trinity is NOT intended to compete on the discrete GPU gaming market.

Because Piledriver cores will be going into Vishera, then with some L3 cache.
We can draw a semi accurate conclusion upto about 5-10% on its overall performance.
IPC is going to be around Phenom II and possibly better, unless AMD are going to work a miracle, which I'm all for.

And I'm not really bashing it at all, even if it does end up a little better than Phenom II per clock, but it's 8 cores and can clock highly, it's still going in the right direction, and it'll be a decent upgrade for Phenom II X4 and X6 owners that are on the AM3+ platform, I mean the X8 could give some very nice performance gains over the X4 if that individual can use it.

Had the A5800K bested the Phenom II X4 980 in every situation, I'd be optimistic for Vishera, and would definitely consider the 8 core myself, but the results of the A10 5800k are there against AMD's 2009 Deneb architecture, and Deneb still looks to be the higher performer. We're about 3 and a half years from that launch.

 

[humbug]

Because Piledriver cores will be going into Vishera, then with some L3 cache.
We can draw a semi accurate conclusion upto about 5-10% on its overall performance.
IPC is going to be around Phenom II and possibly better, unless AMD are going to work a miracle, which I'm all for.

Is that a fact? do you have any hard evidence of what exactly AMD will be doing with Piledriver?

Or is it just you using your own unsubstantiated claims to propagate your arguments.

As i said, lets wait until we actually know anything

 

[Allnamestaken]

Is that a fact? do you have any hard evidence of what exactly AMD will be doing with Piledriver?

Or is it just you using your own unsubstantiated claims to propagate your arguments.

As i said, lets wait until we actually know anything

He mad yo

 

[Martini1991]

Is that a fact? do you have any hard evidence of what exactly AMD will be doing with Piledriver?

Or is it just you using your own unsubstantiated claims to propagate your arguments.

As i said, lets wait until we actually know anything

Because Piledriver was the next generation core, what'd you think they're going to put into Vishera? It's been pretty much touted as using Piledriver cores since Zambezi launched.
Also, read my edit.

Google AMD Vishera, it's all talking about Piledriver cores in them.

This isn't me spouting nonesense.

Honestly, what'd you think they're going to do? Sprinkle some fairy dust on the Piledriver cores and make them go faster?
What I'm saying is quite reasonable, just because it isn't what you want to hear doesn't give you the right to attack me as if I'm some lunatic.

Try a discussion perhaps?

Tell me why it's going to be more than a higher clocking Phenom II X8 with a bit higher IPC? Especially with what AMD's slides say about 10-15%, that would be inline with that 10-15% AMD's own slides say (Actually would be better)

EDIT : In all honesty I'm pegging it around 5% per clock faster than Phenom II and then clocking high and 8 cores. I see that as a positive step forward, not as much as I'd hope, but it sets a good precedent for Steamroller, not sure how at all that's bashing it.

 

[humbug]

Because Piledriver was the next generation core, what'd you think they're going to put into Vishera? It's been pretty much touted as using Piledriver cores since Zambezi launched.
Also, read my edit.

Google AMD Vishera, it's all talking about Piledriver cores in them.

This isn't me spouting nonesense.

Honestly, what'd you think they're going to do? Sprinkle some fairy dust on the Piledriver cores and make them go faster?
What I'm saying is quite reasonable, just because it isn't what you want to hear doesn't give you the right to attack me as if I'm some lunatic.

Try a discussion perhaps?

Tell me why it's going to be more than a higher clocking Phenom II X8 with a bit higher IPC? Especially with what AMD's slides say about 10-15%, that would be inline with that 10-15% AMD's own slides say (Actually would be better)

EDIT : In all honesty I'm pegging it around 5% per clock faster than Phenom II and then clocking high and 8 cores. I see that as a positive step forward, not as much as I'd hope, but it sets a good precedent for Steamroller, not sure how at all that's bashing it.

I know it will have Piledriver cores in them as thats what AMD themselves have said.

But that is all we know. It's all you know. You don't know a thing about how they might implement or optimise those cores for Vishera

The best thing you can do right now is guess what the performance of the end product MIGHT be.

 

[Martini1991]

I know it will have Piledriver cores in them as thats what AMD themselves have said.

But that is all we know. It's all you know. You don't know a thing about how they might implement or optimise those cores for Vishera

The best thing you can do right now is guess what the performance of the end product MIGHT be.

I am.
A CPU with IPC 5% higher than Phenom II (The full fat ones) while having 8 cores and clocking high is what I'm hoping for, but you said that was bashing?

So I'm confused.

It's inline with the performance gain AMD's slides have, and it's not a bad CPU.
I said we can draw a semi accurate conclusion on its performance upto about 5-10%, which you can from AMD's own slides and todays Piledriver results while adding 5-15% from the L3 cache.
Add in an average for consistent performance, any anywhere around 5% higher than Phenom II per clock, high clocking and 8 cores is what you get with a margin of error of about 5%.

But that's bashing AMD according to you?

Stating todays performance isn't anything they haven't offered in the past is also true CPU wise, so I'm not bashing there, simply telling the truth.

EDIT : Don't mistake my confidence/demeanour that I believe I'm posting fact, as I don't and I'm not, but having an expectation based on something that's out there(Piledriver cores with no L3 cache), I can't see how it's unrealistic.

 

[wannabedamned]

I know it will have Piledriver cores in them as thats what AMD themselves have said.

But that is all we know. It's all you know. You don't know a thing about how they might implement or optimise those cores for Vishera

The best thing you can do right now is guess what the performance of the end product MIGHT be.

You know what an educated guess is right? Are you new to talking about future releases or something. every time we get new releases on these forums, these speculation happen.

Sometimes they're pretty accurate. Other times they're off the mark.

You're aware though that debate and discussion is what these forums are about, and using what we know allows for us to put forward a possible outcome on release.

Just dont get your knickers in a twist about it. You're right, we cant know for definite. But we'll discuss it all the same, and you screaming STOP IT STOP IT. isnt going to stop that.

Infact the way you seem to be getting defensive at the speculations being put forward make me think you have a few of your own, with higher hopes. Put them forward! Rather than taking the defensive.

 

[Beren]

What I would love to see are a range of gaming tests done on the A10 and low to mid Intel cards... with progressively better graphics cards. I would expect the AMD to win with no dedicated GPU, but it would be interesting to see how well it compared with a discreet GPU, like a 6670 Vs a similar price i3 set up with budget card. Would the APU crossfire with the discreet card well enough to continue giving it an advantage?

Likewise what would the gaming benchmarks look like when you take the next step up to a 7750?
Also how good a GPU can you put in before the CPU bottle neck becomes significant?
With that info it seems like we could better answer the question of i3 or A10 as a budget gaming option

 

[phill1978]

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Next gen console

nice!

anyone think that the next gen will run better on pc with less losses than the last gen of console ports? I happen to think they will. with Steam on windows and coming to linux I think there has been a huge increase in PC / tablet gaming that devs will want to capitalize on.

whats my point? I think we shall see some great next gen console graphics running off an xbox720 / PS4 AMD-APU and i think they will translate well. Im not saying that a 680gtx SLI with a ivy bridge wont run the game with more AA and at 300FPS but i am saying the requirements for better graphics on PC will be less for more.

so much of this mines faster than yours in relation to gaming i think might not be so important over the next 5 - 7 years, sure there will be benchmark games like crysis 3 and APU`s will suck almost as much as the game but i think the future will be more like mines more compatible with yours

 

[Martini1991]

What I would love to see are a range of gaming tests done on the A10 and low to mid Intel cards... with progressively better graphics cards. I would expect the AMD to win with no dedicated GPU, but it would be interesting to see how well it compared with a discreet GPU, like a 6670 Vs a similar price i3 set up with budget card. Would the APU crossfire with the discreet card well enough to continue giving it an advantage?

Likewise what would the gaming benchmarks look like when you take the next step up to a 7750?
Also how good a GPU can you put in before the CPU bottle neck becomes significant?
With that info it seems like we could better answer the question of i3 or A10 as a budget gaming option

The A10 can crossfire with GPU's like the 6670 IIRC, roughly doubling performance.
You could throw a 3960k with a 6670 and the Trinity with 6670 in Crossfire with it's 7660 would kill it (Although an extreme case)

It'll be more prevalent when we see the 7670 (Assuming it's not the rumoured 6670 rebrand), that'll Crossfire with the 7660.
You could imagine being able to get close to 7750 performance out of the highly clocked Trinity and 7670 (Again, assuming it's not the rumoured 6670 rebrand).

The unlocked dual core with the entry level GPU it can crossfire with would make good for a HTPC and gaming at 720p without costing much at all.

 

[humbug]

If anything, Vishera's going to be a high clocking Phenom II.

AMD have never had a problem with Multicore performance because of the amount of cores they have.

To give you one example.

The problem has always been single threaded performance, that again is not 'so much' a problem with Phenom II because for the price, and the overall performance isn't bad at all.

The problem arises because Bulldozer dropped the ball on single threaded performance, it ended up much lower than Phenom II; and at a higher price.

So what have they done about it?

Bulldozer vs Thuban vs Sandy Bridge @ 3.3Ghz

Obvious who the Winner is there. but at least the Thuban core looks good for it's money

These are the results from Trinity

Forget about Bulldozers pathetic performance for a minute, we all know it's not good.

Let's concentrate what Piledriver is actually competing with in it's own camp

The Thuban core, not Deben; which if i remember right is actually a little weaker.

Thuban did iTunes in 1:35, that 35% behind the i7 SB core, which i believe is stronger than the i5 SB?

Trinity did it in 1:31 @ 3.6Ghz

Lane; exactly the same sort of result.

Thuban 2:15 @ 3.3Ghz, Trinity 2:09 @ 3.6Ghz

These are real life App's using the A-Typical single thread which Intel CPU's thrive on.

Bar a few % perhaps, the Piledriver core is a match for Thuban clock for clock and without L3.

Given that My Thuban will not get to 4.4Ghz / 4.6Ghz on any cooler short of a custom waterblock, let alone the stock cooler; i am categorically beaten by a 6 core Piledriver, never-mind the 8 core.

Whats more i would almost put money on it that the 4 core Piledriver overclocks higher than the 4 core Ivy Bridge on the same cooler.

What you will have then is a Thuban for your single threaded App's clocking higher than Ivy Bridge.

That's not a bad prospect, Be that as it may; i don't think AMD will have done wrong at all.

 

[Martini1991]

What you've posted is mainly an opinion I share, and one I've posted in this thread, I think you're a little optimistic, you think I'm pessimistic, sods law says it'll be dead in the middle

I wouldn't be surprised to see Vishera outclock Ivybridge, the hampering Intel did with the TIM rather than solder is unforgivable.

But lets be honest, we're talking 5% between our predictions ultimately.

 

[humbug]

What you've posted is mainly an opinion I share, and one I've posted in this thread, I think you're a little optimistic, you think I'm pessimistic, sods law says it'll be dead in the middle

I wouldn't be surprised to see Vishera outclock Ivybridge, the hampering Intel did with the TIM rather than solder is unforgivable.

Someone has got to be around here

TIM / Trigate / Small DIE Size..... The discussion on what causing IB to run a little warmer than SB will go on for an eternity

Anyway, look at the review if you already haven't, there are more every day real app's in it than Synthetic benching software.

And it actually competes very well to the i3 throughout.

 

[Martini1991]

I know about Trinity against an i3, I've stated I'd take a Trinity over an i3 (In the same way I picked Phenom II's over i3's)
So I'm not sure why I get so much hate

The lack of overclocking on the i3 puts it at a disadvantage.
Day to day stock at stock you're not going to go wrong with either CPU, but overclock the Trinity and you'll have a fair amount of performance.

But then I must go back to, Deneb, 2009 launch, same CPU performance ultimately

Which is why I can't get too happy CPU side.

I know, had this had L3 cache then you're looking at better than Deneb performance.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

There also seems to be another,lightly threaded productivity test which Toms Hardware use,namely,PDF creation:

http://media.bestofmicro.com/V/E/354938/original/acrobat x.png

http://media.bestofmicro.com/L/P/310525/original/acrobat x.png

Phenom II X4 980BE = 83 seconds,A10-5800K=62 seconds,Core i3 3220= 57 seconds,Core i7 2600K= 54 seconds.

There are some good improvements in some applications with the A10,but due to the module nature,it seems single threaded performance has gone up at the expense of multi-threaded performance,which has only slightly improved or slightly decreased when compared to the A8.

Regarding, iTunes and LAME encoding these are common lightly threaded applications,but,you might probably hit an optical drive bottleneck though,as most people rip directly from disc.

 

[Martini1991]

There's some programs which do show some kinks in the old Deneb, that's for sure, lacks a lot of instruction sets.

 

[humbug]

There also seems to be another,lightly threaded productivity test which Toms Hardware use,namely,PDF creation:

http://media.bestofmicro.com/V/E/354938/original/acrobat%20x.png

http://media.bestofmicro.com/L/P/310525/original/acrobat x.png

Phenom II X4 980BE = 83 seconds,A10-5800K=62 seconds,Core i3 3220= 57 seconds,Core i7 2600K= 54 seconds.

There are some good improvements in some applications with the A10,but due to the module nature,it seems single threaded performance has gone up at the expense of multi-threaded performance,which has only slightly improved or slightly decreased when compared to the A8.

Regarding, iTunes and LAME encoding these are common lightly threaded applications,but,you might probably hit an optical drive bottleneck though,as most people rip directly from disc.

Yeah, it's genral IPC performance, which is what the biggest complaint was about Bulldozer, perhaps they have actualy been listing for once.

I think they can aford to lose some Multithreaded performance, it's not needed as much and they are very stong there as it is.

My next qestion is how will all this translate into Gaming performance.

We might have to wait for Vishera to find that out.

And then price. I have a top end socket AM3+ Motherboard which Vishera will drop right onto.
Top end Intel Motherboards are eye wateringly expensive.

So if i'm getting higher performance with an FX-8350 and it's not more expensive than an i5 3570K they have sold me one.

Add to that i already have a 2500K paired with a GTX 560ti in the house, which i like (not that i get any chance to play with it) And i don't want 2 Intel rigs.

 

[Martini1991]

The Formula V can be had around 204 (From OCUK themselves)
I think that's reasonable, although AMD have always had better high end board prices.

I'd love another Crosshair.

 

[humbug]

The Formula V can be had around 204 (From OCUK themselves)
I think that's reasonable, although AMD have always had better high end board prices.

I'd love another Crosshair.

Thats not bad like, i see the Socket 2011 Z77 Sabertooth is on offer for £180.

I'm only looking at it because it's what i have on the AMD side
I don't like the cover on it, the guts of it are there to be seen

 

[Martini1991]

Not a fan of the sabertooths, AMD or Intel.