AMD VEGA confirmed for 2017 H1

[Gregster]

So basically you want AMD to come in cheap to lower the price of the Nvidia products you want to buy? But you don't want to actually buy AMD. other people can put their hands in their pocket to support them. You just want cheaper Nvidia cards.... Hmm.

Let me explain it to you then.

If everyone had that attitude. That they only want cheap AMD products to lower the price of the Nvidia products and nobody actually buys the AMD product.

AMD will go bust. Bad for everyone. Understand?

What's absurd is thinking I'm saying everyone will only buy Nvidia...

I making point to the mentality of "I want lower prices but someone else can support AMD. Im not putting my hand in my pocket. Someone else will pick up the bill for me."

Plenty Nvidia fanboys floating about this thread with absolutely no intention of buying AMD ever, looking to see when "their" Nvidia products will come down in price. Well guess what. They will only come down in price if AMD are sucssfull and people buy their products.

From my own perspective, I want AMD to do well and I will still buy NVidia for as long as I keep my PG348Q screen. I don't see anything wrong at all with people wanting to buy 'only' NVidia or AMD, as lots of gamers/enthusiasts have either G-Sync or Freesync screens, so of course they want to buy their next GPU at a decent price. You were rather condescending with your 2nd response and massively hyperbolic but if AMD have a good enough product, it will lure people in for purchases, which NVidia will not like, so NVidia cut prices to try and tempt potential lost customers back, then AMD lower prices to tempt them back etc. You see how that works? And that is the way the market works.

So yer, I hope AMD have a great product so I can buy NVidia cheaper

 

[N19h7m4r3]

I don't remember the ATi brand for peasants back in the 9700 Pro/9800 days... So what has changed?

I also remember Valve with Half-Life 2 backing Radeon back then.

AMd bought them, the higher ups nearly ran it into the ground, and they had to take out massive debt to stay afloat. They're still in debt, and the entire company's worth is less than NVIDIA's Volta R&D budget.

Despite all that, they're competitive again with Intel, and now they're trying to get back on track in the GPU department; as by 2015 AMD believed consumer discrete graphics were dead. Glad Raja and Su are there now to sort it all out.

 

[V F]

Why did they nearly run it into the ground? Or rather why would you have done that...

I wonder how stupid the people now look that said discrete graphics were dead by 2015.

 

[nashathedog]

^^

Personally I consider nvidia and "most" of their consumer base to be very much like apple and their consumer base i.e. they just don't want to move to anything else for various reasons:

- AMD has a stigma surrounding them about being a "peasant" brand
- AMD has poor drivers according to many nvidia users
- Nvidia is simply better to most nvidia customers

Only the brainwashed and uninformed believe those.

The sad thing is that without AMD doing things like pushing api innovation with Mantle Nvidia would still have us all on DX11, Sorry, make that DX9.
They're like Intel where they'll happily sit on there laurels over-charging for their products and minimising the advances made in the industry.
The one thing they do consistently is try to tie people up in their eco-system so that they can control what you get and when you get it.

 

[N19h7m4r3]

Why did they nearly run it into the ground? Or rather why would you have done that...

I wonder how stupid the people now look that said discrete graphics were dead by 2015.

They're all done thank goodness, they diverted R&D from essential sectors; and decided to save money by "cutting" their workforce, and R&D departments. Saved them money in the short term, but killed future products, cut vital funding.

They actually believed consoles and APUs were the future. Raja's stated that several times now at presentations and it's damn sad.

What saved them was getting rid of the old farts that didn't know a thing about technology, and putting Su in charge. She knows business, and was an IBM R&Der and Emerging Product division, they also head hunted back Raja, and Jim Keller so get RTG up and running, and get Zen finished.

 

[beany_bot]

From my own perspective, I want AMD to do well and I will still buy NVidia for as long as I keep my PG348Q screen. I don't see anything wrong at all with people wanting to buy 'only' NVidia or AMD, as lots of gamers/enthusiasts have either G-Sync or Freesync screens, so of course they want to buy their next GPU at a decent price. You were rather condescending with your 2nd response and massively hyperbolic but if AMD have a good enough product, it will lure people in for purchases, which NVidia will not like, so NVidia cut prices to try and tempt potential lost customers back, then AMD lower prices to tempt them back etc. You see how that works? And that is the way the market works.

So yer, I hope AMD have a great product so I can buy NVidia cheaper

I'm not in the least bit surprised

 

[JediFragger]

as by 2015 AMD believed consumer discrete graphics were dead.

Tbf they still might be, but at least they're giving it one last go!

 

[V F]

Tbf they still might be, but at least they're giving it one last go!

How? You hear how strong dedicated cards people are after.

 

[Alty]

I'm looking to support AMD with building a Ryzen and Vega build. I accept it may not be as powerful as an intel nvidia build but I think they are on the right track and deserve my support if I can play 1440p at a reasonable performance / price bracket.

 

[queamin]

Why did they nearly run it into the ground? Or rather why would you have done that...

I wonder how stupid the people now look that said discrete graphics were dead by 2015.

From what I heard was the Cpu department ran the graphic's department or had a big say in what went on and as they thought graphic's card's would die off and move to APU's that is where they wanted to go as they cared about their Cpu's/Apu's more, but now they separate departments it should help AMD.

 

[AthlonXP1800]

Vega HBM 2 8GB memory stack costs $160

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/43731-vega-hbm-2-8gb-memory-stack-cost-160

8GB HBM2 memory stack cost $80!!! OUCH!!!

I looked back at Fury X HBM1 BOM cost.



4GB HBM1 cost $48 so 1GB HBM1 memory stack was cost just $12 back in 2015, HBM2 are very expensive than HBM1.

We already saw how huge Vega Frontier Edition card was, it about as long as Radeon R9 290X.

Estimate 16GB Vega Frontier Edition BOM cost:

Vega GPU $80
16GB HBM2 $320
Interposer $25
Substrate & packaging cost $30
PCB cost $15

Total $470

Estimate 8GB RX Vega consumer card BOM cost:

Vega GPU $80
8GB HBM2 $160
Interposer $25
Substrate & packaging cost $30
PCB cost $5 to $15

Total $300 to $310

RX Vega BOM probably will cost nearly twice more than Fury X's $188 back in 2015. AMD would make massive loss for every consumer Vega card sold if they decide to sell at same price or less than 1080 Ti. AMD probably will never released 16GB Vega card for consumer because it is really very expensive, cant see AMD fans buy 16GB Vega consumer card for $1500 to $2000. Looked what happened with Radeon Pro Duo and Titan Z, there was no demands for gaming for $1500 to $3000 GPU.

 

[TheRealDeal]

Rx Vega will be using 2 x 4gb stacks. We don't know how much 2 of them will cost. An 8gb stack will most likely cost an arm and a leg in comparison to a 4gb stack. The interposer may even be cheaper in comparison to Fury X as it will be smaller due to only using 2 stacks in comparison to Fury x's 4.

 

[humbug]

Edit I think so too, ^^^^^ two years after Fury-X and only half the number of stacks, $30 each stack, $60 total.

Estimate 8GB RX Vega consumer card BOM cost:

Vega GPU $80
8GB HBM2 $160
Interposer $25
Substrate & packaging cost $30
PCB cost $5 to $15

Total $300 to $310

RX Vega BOM probably will cost nearly twice more than Fury X's $188 back in 2015. AMD would make massive loss for every consumer Vega card sold if they decide to sell at same price or less than 1080 Ti. AMD probably will never released 16GB Vega card for consumer because it is really very expensive, cant see AMD fans buy 16GB Vega consumer card for $1500 to $2000. Looked what happened with Radeon Pro Duo and Titan Z, there was no demands for gaming for $1500 to $3000 GPU.

$310 + Distribution costs and profit margins '40%' (AMD are running a gross margin of about 30%) $435

AIB costs and profits 30%? $565

Retailer profits 20%?

Consumer cost $680.

either those wccf HBM2 costings are fake or the thing had better be faster than a 1080TI.

 

[Journey]

Well as long as HBM doesn't become the Rambus of the GPU world!

 

[Mtom]

8GB HBM2 memory stack cost $80!!! OUCH!!!

I looked back at Fury X HBM1 BOM cost.



4GB HBM1 cost $48 so 1GB HBM1 memory stack was cost just $12 back in 2015, HBM2 are very expensive than HBM1.

We already saw how huge Vega Frontier Edition card was, it about as long as Radeon R9 290X.

Estimate 16GB Vega Frontier Edition BOM cost:

Vega GPU $80
16GB HBM2 $320
Interposer $25
Substrate & packaging cost $30
PCB cost $15

Total $470

Estimate 8GB RX Vega consumer card BOM cost:

Vega GPU $80
8GB HBM2 $160
Interposer $25
Substrate & packaging cost $30
PCB cost $5 to $15

Total $300 to $310

RX Vega BOM probably will cost nearly twice more than Fury X's $188 back in 2015. AMD would make massive loss for every consumer Vega card sold if they decide to sell at same price or less than 1080 Ti. AMD probably will never released 16GB Vega card for consumer because it is really very expensive, cant see AMD fans buy 16GB Vega consumer card for $1500 to $2000. Looked what happened with Radeon Pro Duo and Titan Z, there was no demands for gaming for $1500 to $3000 GPU.

This is bullcrap.
HBM2 is manufactured by two companies, in much larger quantities, so if it's not the same price it should be cheaper not higher priced.

 

[Calin Banc]

AMD's problem is that they just can't seem to make any (much?) money at all, no matter how good the products.

That's because they always manage to sabotage themselves with every launch.

 

[Rroff]

either those wccf HBM2 costings are fake or the thing had better be faster than a 1080TI.

HBM2 pricing is funny as AFAIK most people can't really utilise it directly - you have to go through a design company who'll make up the interposer for your product (obviously nVidia and AMD wouldn't do this). Who can charge pretty much what they like for HBM2 while that isn't necessarily the cost to a company like AMD. (I suspect this is what WCCF are basing their pricing on).

Well as long as HBM doesn't become the Rambus of the GPU world!

Certainly looking a bit like that.

 

[humbug]

HBM2 pricing is funny as AFAIK most people can't really utilise it directly - you have to go through a design company who'll make up the interposer for your product (obviously nVidia and AMD wouldn't do this). Who can charge pretty much what they like for HBM2 while that isn't necessarily the cost to a company like AMD. (I suspect this is what WCCF are basing their pricing on).



Certainly looking a bit like that.

AMD designed their own Interposer, In partnership with Hynix they also designed the HBM architecture, they own IP in it.

 

[KentMan]

Maybe i am crazy but did AMD not co-develop HBM with Hynix? Surely if this were true, they have some kind of priority clauses in place for something they contributed to? And i cannot imagine they will be paying the same price as other purchasers for the product they helped develop surely?

As the product is also being developed in multiple manufacturing facilities from more than 1 manufacturer i do not expect there to be a huge shortage for AMD for HBM2, what is to say they have no contract in place for preferential supply for a product they helped develop and at a cheaper price?

Too many people read the nonsense that is on such sites like WCCFTech without actually stopping for a second, and thinking, and then coming to forums like this and posting said nonsense, without doing even the smallest bit of research to back up the claims.

 

[humbug]

Maybe i am crazy but did AMD not co-develop HBM with Hynix? Surely if this were true, they have some kind of priority clauses in place for something they contributed to? And i cannot imagine they will be paying the same price as other purchasers for the product they helped develop surely?

As the product is also being developed in multiple manufacturing facilities from more than 1 manufacturer i do not expect there to be a huge shortage for AMD for HBM2, what is to say they have no contract in place for preferential supply for a product they helped develop and at a cheaper price?

Too many people read the nonsense that is on such sites like WCCFTech without actually stopping for a second, and thinking, and then coming to forums like this and posting said nonsense, without doing even the smallest bit of research to back up the claims.

Yes, they did.