AMD VEGA confirmed for 2017 H1

[Rroff]

Look at Fermi - was the GTX470 massively faster and massively cheaper than the HD5870 which had been out for six months?? Nope??

Nvidia still probably sold bucketloads of them.

People still bought the GTX480 in decent numbers even though it was not massively faster than the HD5870,was six months late and cost massively more.

One of the reasons the 470 sold so well was that nVidia (probably due to all the fuss about the heat, etc. of the 480) massively underclocked them out the box - a large majority would go from 607MHz to 800MHz stable on the reference cooler (if you weren't bothered with the fan ramping up a little) with no voltage adjustment and if you were ballsy they ran pretty well at 900MHz with a slightly risky voltage bump which needless to say was a pretty big performance jump over stock and made them a lot more competitive against the 58xx cards.

Downside was the amount of VRAM 1.28GB quickly became irrelevant compared to the core performance in SLI - its quite likely otherwise I'd have skipped Kepler entirely and jumped to the 1070 from the pair of them I had otherwise.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

This is basically it, If they can match or come close they may undercut them, That's at best.

Think about it, The Fury came out the gate slower than a 980ti but AMD expected the same sort of money.

If big Vega has 16gb's of HBM & matches a Pascal Titan X we'll be lucky if it's under a grand. If by the time it's due out Nvidia releases a 1080ti with a 700-800 price tag it will be priced against that instead.
Either way we may see a 50 to 100 pounds at best undercut.

I hope they don't follow the Fury system and do a full fat water cooled and a cut down air cooled, And if they do please for the love of God get quality control right so I can buy one without issues.


There was no good reason for us not getting full chip cards on air.

Thats the thing - I expect maybe a bit of an undercut like £50 to £100 when compared to the GXT1070 and GTX1080,but people literally thinking they will sell a GTX1080 for £300 are just setting themselves up for dissapointment. It was like all the people thinking the RX480 would be a Fury X for £200.

Every leak and every comment from AMD hinted at more R9 390/390X level performance at a cheaper USD price.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

One of the reasons the 470 sold so well was that nVidia (probably due to all the fuss about the heat, etc. of the 480) massively underclocked them out the box - a large majority would go from 607MHz to 800MHz stable on the reference cooler (if you weren't bothered with the fan ramping up a little) with no voltage adjustment and if you were ballsy they ran pretty well at 900MHz with a slightly risky voltage bump which needless to say was a pretty big performance jump over stock and made them a lot more competitive against the 58xx cards.

Same as my HD5850 - I went from 725MHZ to 950MHZ stable on my one and that was a reference one too in a Shuttle SFX system too. I think if I had got one with a decent non-reference cooler I could have hit closer to 1GHZ or thereabouts.

But the thing is at least in the UK the GTX470 still didn't improve on price/performance:

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graph...x-470-1280mb-review-fermi-done-right/?page=14

The whole point is expecting AMD to suddenly have to launch a GTX1080 competitor for peanuts money is wishful thinking. Undercut Nvidia,sure,but I don't expect massive amounts.

Most people who buy cards will be buying on that day and looking at what options are available. This is why people buying a GTX470 or GTX480 or even the GTX460 which came out nine months after the HD5850,didn't care about delays at all.

 

[Rroff]

Same as my HD5850 - I went from 725MHZ to 950MHZ stable on my one and that was a reference one too in a Shuttle SFX system too. I think if I had got one with a decent non-reference cooler I could have hit closer to 1GHZ or thereabouts.

5850 and 470 were real bargains back then for those who knew what was what heh and it was actually worth buying a pair over the top end single card which isn't really the case these days.

 

[TheRealDeal]

5850 and 470 were real bargains back then for those who knew what was what heh and it was actually worth buying a pair over the top end single card which isn't really the case these days.

Yea it's all changed these days and i doubt we will ever see the bargain cards of the past. These days we are seeing effectively mid range chips at high end prices. The gtx470/5850 were the top end chips cut down and priced where the mid end is these days. It's made even worse due to the crap pound.

 

[bru]

I hope they don't follow the Fury system and do a full fat water cooled and a cut down air cooled, And if they do please for the love of God get quality control right so I can buy one without issues.


There was no good reason for us not getting full chip cards on air.

Whatever they do, as you say they have to get it right.

I just hope they don't push the chip too far to get the performance out of it so that it competes with whichever card they pitch it against, the last thing they need is for a hot noisy card with no room for further clocking. It would be better to have room left in the tank with a reasonable cooler, with slightly lower performance, than pushed too hard from the outset.

This of course is just my opinion.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Whatever they do, as you say they have to get it right.

I just hope they don't push the chip too far to get the performance out of it so that it competes with whichever card they pitch it against, the last thing they need is for a hot noisy card with no room for further clocking. It would be better to have room left in the tank with a reasonable cooler, with slightly lower performance, than pushed too hard from the outset.

This of course is just my opinion.

Plus no more sound bites like "overclockers dream" when the card was anything other than one!!

 

[TheRealDeal]

Plus no more sound bites like "overclockers dream" when the card was anything other than one!!

Yea don't let anyone on stage that clearly does not have a clue about overclocking. I think he thought just because the card was water cooled it automatically meant it would overclock. Personally i would rather the card came close to it's full potential rather than having loads of headroom. I mean whats better a card that's 20% faster out of the box and has 10% left or a card that's 20% slower but has 30% headroom left. What we really want as we are gready is the 20% faster card and it still has 30% left in the tank.

 

[queamin]

Amd will not say lets make as little as possible on these cards and sell them at half the price of Nvidia they will sell them as high as they can.

Amd will match what ever Nvidia has out at the time and just under cut it, the price cuts will not happen unless Nvidia drops their prices or just before their next gen cards are out.

 

[Griffildur]

Amd will not say lets make as little as possible on these cards and sell them at half the price of Nvidia they will sell them as high as they can.

Amd will match what ever Nvidia has out at the time and just under cut it, the price cuts will not happen unless Nvidia drops their prices or just before their next gen cards are out.

seeing as the 1080 cards would have been out a full year by then, with good and stable drivers, Nvidia can definitely afford to drop the prices and ruin AMDs party. It's what happens when you're too late.

I am interested to see how this will play out in the end.

 

[queamin]

seeing as the 1080 cards would have been out a full year by then, with good and stable drivers, Nvidia can definitely afford to drop the prices and ruin AMDs party. It's what happens when you're too late.

I am interested to see how this will play out in the end.

Yes then Amd will have to react but they will not just knock off 2 or 300 per card, as they need the money, now if Zen is a big hit then maybe they could do something later on when Zen apu's come out.

 

[TNA]

It is not a few years it is now and what ever you say titan xp is over a grand and you expect Amd to sell something that equals it at less than half price give me a break next you want Amd to sell you a card that matches a 1080 for 300 while nvidia sell theirs at 5/600.
They will sell them just under what ever Nvidia sell them at and if they don't sell then they might drop the prices.

What you are saying would make sense had Vega come out within a few months of Pascal. But approximately a 1 year later?

[Hint: performance gets cheaper over time]

 

[TheRealDeal]

What you are saying would make sense had Vega come out within a few months of Pascal. But approximately a 1 year later?

These days performance gets cheaper when a lot of time passes. Check out the 290x/390x. Pretty much the same chip and was not to much cheaper after 2-3 years.

 

[queamin]

What you are saying would make sense had Vega come out within a few months of Pascal. But approximately a 1 year later?

They cheaper when completion has something to match look at cpu's.

When Vega comes out they will price it just under nvidia and if nvidia drops their prices then so will Amd, so will nvidia sell a titan xp for 500? in a few months? of course not but you want amd to sell vega which if matches titan xp to sell for 500 when a titan xp will be over 1000 still.

 

[tyler_jrb]

Yeah, because a few years down the line when there's cards 5x faster than the Titan XP, we're going to be charged £5000+ for them....

[Hint: performance gets cheaper over time]

This is a Vega thread is it not? I was refering to Vega being TXP perf for £500. Not cards 2-3-4-5 years down the line... Because of course they will be

 

[nashathedog]

It look like we'll see a repeat of Kepler and the first Titan, At the time Nvidia released a cut down GK110 Titan and at first AMD had nothing to compete with it, When AMD responded with Hawaii Nvidia had the full fat chip ready to release as the Titan Black and 780ti. This is like history repeating itself with a cut down Titan and if Vega has the nachos we'll get a full fat release from Nvidia soon after. That or a Pascal refreshed 1100 series if it's mid 2017.

 

[Raelgun]

It look like we'll see a repeat of Kepler and the first Titan, At the time Nvidia released a cut down GK110 Titan and at first AMD had nothing to compete with it, When AMD responded with Hawaii Nvidia had the full fat chip ready to release as the Titan Black and 780ti. This is like history repeating itself with a cut down Titan and if Vega has the nachos we'll get a full fat release from Nvidia soon after. That or a Pascal refreshed 1100 series if it's mid 2017.

Isn't the XP the full fat card, the TI is rumoured to be the cut down version of the XP on the leaks, unless you are referring to the P100 which is a massive chip in its own right, that has its own production issues.

 

[TheRealDeal]

It look like we'll see a repeat of Kepler and the first Titan, At the time Nvidia released a cut down GK110 Titan and at first AMD had nothing to compete with it, When AMD responded with Hawaii Nvidia had the full fat chip ready to release as the Titan Black and 780ti. This is like history repeating itself with a cut down Titan and if Vega has the nachos we'll get a full fat release from Nvidia soon after. That or a Pascal refreshed 1100 series if it's mid 2017.

I can't remember fully but i thought gp102 was a full gp102 but gp100 was different again with more shaders so in effect we have the full chip that was designed for gaming. gk110 Titan was a cut down chip but was still a gx110 where as gp102 and gp100 are 2 seperate chips.

Hope that makes some sense

 

[TNA]

These days performance gets cheaper when a lot of time passes. Check out the 290x/390x. Pretty much the same chip and was not to much cheaper after 2-3 years.

That may be true, but in this case it was because AMD had nothing to offer. They will do with Vega.

They cheaper when completion has something to match look at cpu's.

When Vega comes out they will price it just under nvidia and if nvidia drops their prices then so will Amd, so will nvidia sell a titan xp for 500? in a few months? of course not but you want amd to sell vega which if matches titan xp to sell for 500 when a titan xp will be over 1000 still.

In a few months? As it is it looks like it will be about a year after Pascal. 1 year is a long time.

I want AMD to bring the competition. Being a year or nearly a year late they need to be bringing the price for a given performance down. Not offer the same a year late for a few quid less.

This is a Vega thread is it not? I was refering to Vega being TXP perf for £500. Not cards 2-3-4-5 years down the line... Because of course they will be

I am giving you an example of history and how it keeps repeating itself. Price for a given performance comes down. So not sure why you are rolling your eyes. As mentioned above Vega will come out a year or nearly a year after pascal. That is a long time in tech.

It is like you guys do not want the price for performance to improve or something. If anything that should be what eyes should be rolled over. Lol.

 

[D1craig]

the problem is we have seen people dont buy AMD cards when they are priced competitively or not, most would still rather have nvidia so... AMD cant win really.

but HBM could be the game changer for them. if they have HBM and nvidia dont a lot of people will get one just for that. didnt work with gddr5 though.