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AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - *** NO COMPETITOR HINTING ***

pastymuncher said:
I get 187 with the 4790k at 4.6Ghz and my 4670k at 4.8Ghz gets 193.

For those are argueing that Ryzen is on a par with Coffeelake and clockspeed is nothing without IPC the way I see it you need both and both of my Haswell cpu's score better than any of the Ryzen cpu's so Haswell to Ryzen is a downgrade as far as single core performance goes. Yes, Ryzen is similar clock for clock with Coffeelake but Ryzen cannot get near the same clockspeeds so are still a downgrade for my uses.
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Nobody denying that, its just clock speed now thats holding Ryzen back. :) (Though any IPC improvement is also welcome in the next gen cpu)

Interesting that sims are mostly single core, seems like something that would benefit multi core.
 
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chroniclard said:
Nobody denying that, its just clock speed now thats holding Ryzen back. :) (Though any IPC improvement is also welcome in the next gen cpu)
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That's basically what I said in post #50. They need to improve both significantly to persuade me to move though. Even the 8700k isn't a big enough performance increase to justify the huge expense of changing to a new platform. Not that I would buy into such a overpriced vulnerable (spectre/meltdown no matter how small the chance of having it happen it's still a vulnerability) platform anyway.
 
Top one with bclk overclock/boost (4.45 ish). Bottom one with 4.2 all core overclock.

Going to be interesting to see what Intel and AMD come out with this next year. Certainly nice to have a choice again. :)

gAfshjs.png
 
pastymuncher said:
I get 190 with the 4790k at 4.6Ghz and my 4670k at 4.8Ghz gets 193.

For those are argueing that Ryzen is on a par with Coffeelake and clockspeed is nothing without IPC the way I see it you need both and both of my Haswell cpu's score better than any of the Ryzen cpu's so Haswell to Ryzen is a downgrade as far as single core performance goes. Yes, Ryzen is similar clock for clock with Coffeelake but Ryzen cannot get near the same clockspeeds so are still a downgrade for my uses.

Here you go this is my 4790k @ 4.6Ghz with a cinebench run that I have just done. I know Ryzen is much better with multicore but that's irrelevant to me as single core performance is everything to the games I play (mostly sims).

qIrCG4R.png
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That's higher than anyother Haswell chip in any benchmark at 4.6Ghz, even in that chart there is a Haswell i7 at 4.4Ghz, you're clocked 4% higher and are claiming to score 15% higher, that's scaling of near 400% which is 4x over what's possible.

There are cinebench hacks, are you using them? if not check you numbers because you ain't scoring 190 ST on Haswell with anything less than 4.8Ghz.

Even that is only 5% higher than Ryzen 2 at 4.2/3Ghz so i don't really know what your point is? Ryzen 3 in this is tipped to have 15% higher IPC, where does Haswell even come into this? what's your point? Haswell is old and slow.
 
humbug said:
That's higher than anyother Haswell chip in any benchmark at 4.6Ghz, even in that chart there is a Haswell i7 at 4.4Ghz, you're clocked 4% higher and are claiming to score 15% higher, that's scaling of near 400% which is 4x over what's possible.

There are cinebench hacks, are you using them? if not check you numbers because you ain't scoring 190 ST on Haswell with anything less than 4.8Ghz.

Even that is only 5% higher than Ryzen 2 at 4.2/3Ghz so i don't really know what your point is? Ryzen 3 in this is tipped to have 15% higher IPC, where does Haswell even come into this? what's your point? Haswell is old and slow.
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And if that comes to pass I'm sure it'll become a more viable option for those who need the best core for core performance.
 
Martini1991 said:
And if that comes to pass I'm sure it'll become a more viable option for those who need the best core for core performance.
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And those of us in that boat are excited by the possibility of AMD taking the crown next year. I miss the old annual upgrades of the early noughties. Even if it ends up being only 5-10% per year, it's still nice to have something on the visible horizon :)
 
humbug said:
That's higher than anyother Haswell chip in any benchmark at 4.6Ghz, even in that chart there is a Haswell i7 at 4.4Ghz, you're clocked 4% higher and are claiming to score 15% higher, that's scaling of near 400% which is 4x over what's possible.

There are cinebench hacks, are you using them? if not check you numbers because you ain't scoring 190 ST on Haswell with anything less than 4.8Ghz.

Even that is only 5% higher than Ryzen 2 at 4.2/3Ghz so i don't really know what your point is? Ryzen 3 in this is tipped to have 15% higher IPC, where does Haswell even come into this? what's your point? Haswell is old and slow.
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Believe what you want but I do not make false claims. That was a cinebench run with all tests from a fresh download from their website. Just because my cpu is faster than you believe it should be and beats your precious Ryzen doesn't mean it's fake. Haswell is still a excellent platform so get over it. I have seen your fanboy posts on AMD and Ryzen so your post doesn't really surprise me. If you don't believe me then that's your choice but calling me a liar and accusing me of cheating is something altogether different. I have never lied or falsified anything I have ever posted on this forum or anywhere else for that matter.

What is my point? Is a Ryzen 2700x better than my 4790k in single thread performance? The answer is no so Ryzen is a downgrade from my 4790k for my uses. I already have a Haswell 4790k so my point is extremely valid. Ryzen 3 will need to be significantly better than my 4790k to persuade me to splash a large amount of cash on upgrading. I really hope they can improve significantly because it would be nice to have a choice again when it comes to upgrading but it would have to be a big jump from where they are now and I am not sure if they can pull it off. I haven't even upgraded to a 8700k because the performance gains isn't worth the amount of cash I would have to spend.
 
humbug said:
That's higher than anyother Haswell chip in any benchmark at 4.6Ghz, even in that chart there is a Haswell i7 at 4.4Ghz, you're clocked 4% higher and are claiming to score 15% higher, that's scaling of near 400% which is 4x over what's possible.

There are cinebench hacks, are you using them? if not check you numbers because you ain't scoring 190 ST on Haswell with anything less than 4.8Ghz.

Even that is only 5% higher than Ryzen 2 at 4.2/3Ghz so i don't really know what your point is? Ryzen 3 in this is tipped to have 15% higher IPC, where does Haswell even come into this? what's your point? Haswell is old and slow.
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It's not that far off Humbug. 4.7Ghz i7 4790k scored 192 single thread when I checked last, so 4.6Ghz at 190 isn't far off. So indeed you can score 190 ST on less than 4.8Ghz. The 2700x is 183ish at 4.4Ghz so there is a little gap, as you around 5% but that 5% is enough still at moment for playing some older games to have a difference because a synthetic score is only a principle as you well know :)

With this pastymuncher is correct at moment, for the needs stated then Ryzen is still trailing. Of course that is likely to change with 3XXX series but also as noted above then it is a big cost with very minimal gains right now and with the latest Intels latest able to achieve 202 single thread score or 10% over the best Ryzen numbers is a 15% IPC increase going to be enough even if they get it to clock to 4.4Ghz + as stock?

It could be yet another release before the 4790k and newer Intel series really need an upgrade in CPU. Of course if games are much more effectively utilising 8+ cores then that changes it a little but at moment those are still limited compared to the back catalogue most PC gamers have.
 
pastymuncher said:
Believe what you want but I do not make false claims. That was a cinebench run with all tests from a fresh download from their website. Just because my cpu is faster than you believe it should be and beats your precious Ryzen doesn't mean it's fake. Haswell is still a excellent platform so get over it. I have seen your fanboy posts on AMD and Ryzen so your post doesn't really surprise me. If you don't believe me then that's your choice but calling me a liar and accusing me of cheating is something altogether different. I have never lied or falsified anything I have ever posted on this forum or anywhere else for that matter.

What is my point? Is a Ryzen 2700x better than my 4790k in single thread performance? The answer is no so Ryzen is a downgrade from my 4790k for my uses. I already have a Haswell 4790k so my point is extremely valid. Ryzen 3 will need to be significantly better than my 4790k to persuade me to splash a large amount of cash on upgrading. I really hope they can improve significantly because it would be nice to have a choice again when it comes to upgrading but it would have to be a big jump from where they are now and I am not sure if they can pull it off. I haven't even upgraded to a 8700k because the performance gains isn't worth the amount of cash I would have to spend.
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Oh the lame AMD fanboy line, of course its the go to sentence for Intel fanboys, every time.

Don't be such a such a victim i had a Haswell CPU of my own before the 1600, i know how fast it is and how fast it isn't and 190 at 4.6Ghz is a pretty special score, possible with benchmark OS tweaks perhaps, if your going to try and tell me your head popped off the pillow and you thought you would run a benchmark out of the blue and that was your score, no, i don't believe you, so while throwing around fanboy accusations if you, no you did tweak the crap out of your OS and run it over and over again to present to me your best score as if its just an everyday score for Haswell i'm calling utter BS, i'm not stupid.

I said in this very room just a couple of days ago to someone thinking of upgrading from Haswell to Ryzen that he would not see a difference in single threaded performance, i said pretty much the same thing a couple of posts before the one you quoted, you didn't even read it, people like you don't read anything anyone actually says your the typical type who approaches people with perceptions already set, you didn't discover my "AMD Fanboyisum" because i didn't agree with you early on you already made your mind up then, perhaps even before we spoke a single word to each other and with that you exaggerated your claims in order to win what you have already decided is a war against an "AMD fanboy"

Is that score possible at 4.6Ghz? perhaps with a lot of work.
 
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I play Fallout 4 which is limited by single threaded performance(but uses upto six threads,but with decreasing thread usage) and latency primarily and is also probably not that well optimised for Ryzen either:

https://cdn.sweclockers.com/artikel/diagram/14689?key=51b6c375f557cb62e67cbdd5bfddb87f
https://cdn.sweclockers.com/artikel/diagram/14241?key=349d9720f637f7bc86523c9db8088f78

Ryzen MK1 was trailing behind Haswell,but Ryzen MK2 is ahead of Haswell. SKL/KL/CFL however had big gains in the game over Haswell. So its not always the case,even in games which are limited by a single thread that SKL/KL/CFL are not a decent upgrade or Ryzen being worse.
 
humbug said:
Don't be such a such a victim i had a Haswell CPU of my own before the 1600, i know how fast it is and how fast it isn't and 190 at 4.6Ghz is a pretty special score, possible with benchmark OS tweaks perhaps, if your going to try and tell me your head popped off the pillow and you thought you would run a benchmark out of the blue and that was your score, no, i don't believe you, so while throwing around fanboy accusations if you, no you did tweak the crap out of your OS and run it over and over again to present to me your best score as if its just an everyday score for Haswell i'm calling utter BS, i'm not stupid.
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If you really think I have tweaked the crap out of my OS then you must be stupid because I didn't tweak anything at all. Once again, I do not lie and I certainly don't fake or feel that I need to fake something. I downloaded Cinebench, ran all of the tests once and posted the results on here so **** off and do one. I will not stand for anybody calling me a liar and a cheat. I am neither and it may surprise you to know that I wouldn't even know where to begin to tweak things as you put it. Have you even looked at the scores in the big cinebench thread? There is a 4770k @ 4.6Ghz that scores 188 which is only two points less than my 4790k so whay the hell do you find it so hard to believe?

As for the AMD fanboyism I have seen in in many threads that you infect and you never back down and admit that you could be wrong. It was you who jumped on my post not me on yours. You started all this nonsense. The likes of you is what ruins this forum.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
I play Fallout 4 which is limited by single threaded performance(but uses upto six threads,but with decreasing thread usage) and latency primarily and is also probably not that well optimised for Ryzen either:

https://cdn.sweclockers.com/artikel/diagram/14689?key=51b6c375f557cb62e67cbdd5bfddb87f
https://cdn.sweclockers.com/artikel/diagram/14241?key=349d9720f637f7bc86523c9db8088f78

Ryzen MK1 was trailing behind Haswell,but Ryzen MK2 is ahead of Haswell. SKL/KL/CFL however had big gains in the game over Haswell. So its not always the case,even in games which are limited by a single thread that SKL/KL/CFL are not a decent upgrade or Ryzen being worse.
Click to expand...

True :)

4790K Single core boost: 4.4Ghz: 99 FPS
2700X Single core boost: 4.35Ghz: 106 FPS

With roughly the same single core boost Ryzen 2 is 7% faster.

Arma 3 was a little slower on the Ryzen 1, you can see that here with the 5960X vs the 1800X, it did however get a Ryzen patch.

kLQvYkg.png

After its Ryzen patch the performance jumped up, they didn't test Haswell again but this vs Coffeelake.

4790K single core boost 4.4Ghz: 99 FPS <From the previous benchmark.
8400 Single thread boost 4Ghz: 92 FPS
2600 Single core boost 3.4Ghz: 90 FPS

2600 OC 4.2Ghz: 107 FPS.

Brhf1MX.png

36 games of all sorts and this is the result:

https://www.techspot.com/review/1627-core-i5-8400-vs-ryzen-5-2600/page8.html

8400 4Ghz boost: 162
2600 4.2Ghz OC: 170

I'd call that, no it is clock for clock the same.

0S3MLtf.png

I'm an AMD fanboy for pointing out the facts ^^^^ :rolleyes:
 
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