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AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - *** NO COMPETITOR HINTING ***

Something looks a little off with the original Adoredtv figures. Specifically, the TDPs for the 3600X, 3700X, and 3800X.
Each move to the next is a 4c/8t upgrade, with a very minor base clock increase, though the TDP rises from 95w to 105w, and then to 135w.
Of itself it doesn't say much at all, but if we think that 4c and 0.1GHz is costing 30w, then it doesn't say a great things about the maximum ACT for these Zen 2 CPUs. I'm not sure how it can be much above the base clock at all, perhaps as little as 0.3GHz.
Dont get me wrong, that is still going to knock a 9900K out of the park, and I do personally like the idea of higher base clocks in any event, but for those that like to overclock you can be sure that they'll still be bleating on about how Intel can get them 5.1-5.2GHz, and that Intel therefore remains the best for gamers.
Perhaps me reading of the figures is wrong, and the 3600X and 3800X have more headroom under their TDP limit than I think.
 
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Potatowithearsontheside said:
Something looks a little off with the original Adoredtv figures. Specifically, the TDPs for the 3600X, 3700X, and 3800X.
Each move to the next is a 4c/8t upgrade, with a very minor base clock increase, though the TDP rises from 95w to 105w, and then to 135w.
Of itself it doesn't say much at all, but if we think that 4c and 0.1GHz is costing 30w, then it doesn't say a great things about the maximum ACT for these Zen 2 CPUs. I'm not sure how it can be much above the base clock at all, perhaps as little as 0.3GHz.
Dont get me wrong, that is still going to knock a 9900K out of the park, and I do personally like the idea of higher base clocks in any event, but for those that like to overclock you can be sure that they'll still be bleating on about how Intel can get them 5.1-5.2GHz, and that Intel therefore remains the best for gamers.
Perhaps me reading of the figures is wrong, and the 3600X and 3800X have more headroom under their TDP limit than I think.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you are getting at, but a 3600X which is 8c/16t 4.0 base/4.8 boost at 95w seems like a pretty significant upgrade at the same TDP as the 6c/12t 2600X with only 3.6/4.2 clocks.

Edit: I re-read what you said after I had some painkillers, and now it makes more sense. You are struggling with why adding 4c/8t only adds 10w to the TDP limit, from the 3600X to the 3700X.

I do agree that reducing the per core wattage down from ~12w to ~9w doesn't seem right essentially with the increased clock speeds, but as you said they are not release figures and could be conservative on the power usage on the 3600X part. If you look at the current crop of parts the 2600 is ~11w per core, so a I'd expect ~6w per core for the same performance on 7nm which would put the 8c/16t none X parts at more like 50w TDP, and the X parts at 75-80w for the increased clocks.
 
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Potatowithearsontheside said:
Something looks a little off with the original Adoredtv figures. Specifically, the TDPs for the 3600X, 3700X, and 3800X.
Each move to the next is a 4c/8t upgrade, with a very minor base clock increase, though the TDP rises from 95w to 105w, and then to 135w.
Of itself it doesn't say much at all, but if we think that 4c and 0.1GHz is costing 30w, then it doesn't say a great things about the maximum ACT for these Zen 2 CPUs. I'm not sure how it can be much above the base clock at all, perhaps as little as 0.3GHz.
Dont get me wrong, that is still going to knock a 9900K out of the park, and I do personally like the idea of higher base clocks in any event, but for those that like to overclock you can be sure that they'll still be bleating on about how Intel can get them 5.1-5.2GHz, and that Intel therefore remains the best for gamers.
Perhaps me reading of the figures is wrong, and the 3600X and 3800X have more headroom under their TDP limit than I think.
Click to expand...

Your 1st post here i see, mmmmmmmm. Looks like Intel have got the paid forum trolls in early this time round, they waited until Ryzen was actually released last time :rolleyes:
 
You're such a cynic.
I'd suggest reading my posts on Anandtech and you'll quickly realise that I favour AMD by quite some distance.
I'm questioning some of the figures because the leaks seem too good to be true. I do hope they are in fact true, but in the meantime I feel it is more useful to actually try and digger deeper into the numbers to see if it all adds up. The thing about being critical is that it encourages discussion, and since I don't claim to know everything about anything, I am perfectly happy to read constructive criticisms of my own posts. In fact, anything that helps me better understand things is actually a positive.
Calling me an Intel troll is just incredibly weak and lazy on your part. Viewing life with rose-tinted glasses is dangerous, so I try to avoid it.
Unlike some guy I read posts from in the last handful of pages, I actually like watching Adoredtv videos, and find his methods of communicating ideas as quite refreshing, which is pretty rare considering the state of journalism in "the free world."
 
My guess is good as any and same with the predictions but take these predictions with a pinch of salt, if it's right it's right if not then it is wrong.

Dan.
 
Potatowithearsontheside said:
You're such a cynic.
I'd suggest reading my posts on Anandtech and you'll quickly realise that I favour AMD by quite some distance.
I'm questioning some of the figures because the leaks seem too good to be true. I do hope they are in fact true, but in the meantime I feel it is more useful to actually try and digger deeper into the numbers to see if it all adds up. The thing about being critical is that it encourages discussion, and since I don't claim to know everything about anything, I am perfectly happy to read constructive criticisms of my own posts. In fact, anything that helps me better understand things is actually a positive.
Calling me an Intel troll is just incredibly weak and lazy on your part. Viewing life with rose-tinted glasses is dangerous, so I try to avoid it.
Unlike some guy I read posts from in the last handful of pages, I actually like watching Adoredtv videos, and find his methods of communicating ideas as quite refreshing, which is pretty rare considering the state of journalism in "the free world."
Click to expand...

I just have read your posts on Anandtech and you have my full apology for calling you a troll.
When Ryzen was first released, there were at least 2 Intel paid trolls that suddenly appeared on here though calling into doubt just about anything and anything to do with Ryzen so maybe you can understand my thought process on this.
 
If I remember right, AdoredTV explained in detail about the big boost in clock speeds and cores with only a small bump in TDP.
 
I've been rocking a 1366 board and X5650 for as long as I can remember and this is the first time that this series could be the replacement for the next 8 or so years.

Bring it on :D
 
andy_mk3 said:
If I remember right, AdoredTV explained in detail about the big boost in clock speeds and cores with only a small bump in TDP.
Click to expand...

He did. I think the jist of it was the selection and binning of chiplets. In other words, the yield is so high to start with that AMD can nearly choose exactly what sections of the market to bin and price a cpu for and make money in all those sections of the market.
 
Ryzen R3 going from 4 threads to 12 seems far fetched to me. It would be a bold move but I can't see that happening.
 
The increase in cores and clock speeds is not the problem, since that's the one thing that is easy to explain going from GF 12nm+ to TSMC 7nm. The apparent discrepancy is difference in TDP rating of the 3600X, 3700X, and the 3800X. For me, the numbers only look feasible if the TDP ratings for the 3600X and the 3800X are on the conservative side; i.e. they are even more power efficient than we're expecting.
If they aren't conservative then the ACT can't really be more than 0.3GHz above base clocks.
We're still talking 4.6GHz ACT on the 3900X, which would be incredible. I just think that there'll be lots of people bemoaning that they won't go to 5.1-5.2GHz, especially from gamers. The old argument has always been about games still being ST performance dependent, and I don't think that it completely goes away with this lineup...except for the odd SKU. Personally, I don't subscribe to that mentality, because it's only true for competitive eSports gamers, but most consumers buy based upon soundbites from their chosen influencers.
 
Pants said:
Ryzen R3 going from 4 threads to 12 seems far fetched to me. It would be a bold move but I can't see that happening.
Click to expand...

I'd imagine AMD are aiming to make the low end of the market at least 6 cores, and more likely 6c/12t especially those without an IGPU since it would make anything Intel has on offer defunct over night (almost). You can buy an R5 1600 for £119, so I don't think targeting the <£99 price is that much of a problem, they may keep the very low end 4c/8t for <£70. AMD need to get serious with the APU's however as that is what big OEM's use and that is where market share is, so offering a 6c/12t part with graphics that is far above what Intel can offer would make them untouchable for value and performance, and the likes of Dell, HP, and Lenovo would all be more than just interested this time around.
 
Pants said:
Ryzen R3 going from 4 threads to 12 seems far fetched to me. It would be a bold move but I can't see that happening.
Click to expand...

The quad core parts will get bumped down to athlons where they will replace the existing 2 core 4 thread CPUs. A 4c4t CPU will offer a decent performance increase over the current 2c4t parts. If they really want to they cold do a 4c8t cpu but i'm guessing that to make the most of the salvaged parts at this price the will stick to 4c4t. I'm also guessing they will be released in about 6 - 8 months time once AMD have enough salvaged parts and the the other higher profile CPU and GPU launches are over and done with.
 
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Potatowithearsontheside said:
Something looks a little off with the original Adoredtv figures. Specifically, the TDPs for the 3600X, 3700X, and 3800X.
Each move to the next is a 4c/8t upgrade, with a very minor base clock increase, though the TDP rises from 95w to 105w, and then to 135w.
Click to expand...

That's probably more to do with the interconnect (the data fabric part of IF) *IIRC something like 50% or more of the power envelope goes towards that, the cores take up surprisingly little power, probably more so with the node shrink.

*I think Anandtech reported on it sometime back, although maybe I'm misremembering, i would try and dig it up but as you've already experienced some people are rather hostile when it comes to having an open and honest discussion. :)

EDIT: Found it: I did misremember, Infinity Fabric consumes an almost constant 55-60W of the total on a 20 core layout so as core count goes down or up it takes up a higher or lower percentage of the total.

2nd EDIT: Found a more detailed look at power requirements of interconnects.
 
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I'm on the first gen of Ryzen so I Want To Believe™ because that would make my upgrade path tasty. I think it would disrupt the market as much as the initial release of Ryzen, maybe more, to have 12 threads on the low end. It would give application and game developers the green light to push CPU's harder. It would also further distance Ryzen from the advances ARM companies are making into the PC market which is interesting to follow. Interesting times ahead. Maybe.
 
Ryzen 9 spotted on comparison site, 3800X and it matches AdoredTV's leaks....

5AZ8zdV.png



PS: i don't like this guy, he rambles incoherently, a lot.... he also spends more time making verbal disclaimers than he does giving you any useful info.
 
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