AMD Zen 2 - Threadripper 3rd gen thread

[DragonQ]

I don't really like the idea of multiple Threadripper chipsets, it just complicates matters. I'm not sure if they'll bother with a 16c variant but I bet we'll see 24c and 32c. If they're going for the same type of package as EPYC they can obviously go up to 64c but I doubt they would - better to start with 40c or 48c and move onto 56c and 64c later on when they have better yields. If they're using a different package with say 6 chiplets then obviously they'll be limited to 48c anyway.

 

[TrM]

@TrM

Given the capability of the Zen 2 architecture, the question comes down to this: is it just cores you want? There are a lot of amateur, hobbyist and prosumer tasks that only need cores and wouldn't really benefit from lots of PCIe lanes or more than dual-channel memory. If that is the case then bag a 3900X or 3950X and you're golden. If though your work benefits from 64 PCIe lanes, quad-channel memory and more than 16 cores then go Threadripper, that's what it's there for.

You could argue the small crossover where you're strapping together 4 or even 7 compute cards so need the 64 PCIe lanes, but don't need many cores, so a low-core Threadripper would be perfect, but I don't see AMD releasing a sub 16 core Threadripper. Physically couldn't be done without seriously defective chiplets. Hell, a 16 core Threadripper would be made up of bargain bin chiplets (4x 4 core chiplets + 4 spacers) that would probably end up in Athlons.

The first part made a lot more sense then what I was trying to say but I fully agree with you on that.

But the second part a lower threadripper part though could just be. 3900x and 3950x with a different io chipelet though and just have 12 and 16 core threadripper with 2 working die and 2 fake die to keep 4 chiplets then put the price up and call it the threadripper 3920 and 3970x it’s a cheap a dirty way to offer 12 and 16 cores on threadripper platform ? Or am I looking at this wrong ?

 

[LePhuronn]

I don't really like the idea of multiple Threadripper chipsets

3 is overegging the pudding. I can get behind 2 chipsets simply to give Threadripper a dual socket option like Intel does. That's WX80 covered. But what exactly will differentiate TX40 and TX80?

Quad or 8-channel RAM or more PCIe lanes will require different I/O dies in the Threadrippers, unless all Threadrippers come with the EPYC I/O die (i.e. 8-channel RAM and 129 PCIe lanes) and the TX40 BIOS locks half of it down. I can see the argument though given that Intel offers a 6-channel HEDT platform so TX80 (assuming 8-channel RAM) is the counter to that, but it does seem a little convoluted, almost diluting the Threadripper product stack with too many options.

 

[LePhuronn]

But the second part a lower threadripper part though could just be. 3900x and 3950x with a different io chipelet though and just have 12 and 16 core threadripper with 2 working die and 2 fake die to keep 4 chiplets then put the price up and call it the threadripper 3920 and 3970x it’s a cheap a dirty way to offer 12 and 16 cores on threadripper platform ? Or am I looking at this wrong ?

Threadripper uses the EPYC package, so Threadripper will has 8 chiplet positions. 48 and 64 core models will populate all 8 chiplets, 32 cores might populate all 8 with 4-core chiplets, or use 4 chiplets and 4 spacers. 16 and 24 core Threadrippers would use 4 chiplets and 4 spacers. And since you can't have 3-core chiplets you wont get a 12 core Threadripper.

 

[jigger]

3 is overegging the pudding. I can get behind 2 chipsets simply to give Threadripper a dual socket option like Intel does. That's WX80 covered. But what exactly will differentiate TX40 and TX80?

Quad or 8-channel RAM or more PCIe lanes will require different I/O dies in the Threadrippers, unless all Threadrippers come with the EPYC I/O die (i.e. 8-channel RAM and 129 PCIe lanes) and the TX40 BIOS locks half of it down. I can see the argument though given that Intel offers a 6-channel HEDT platform so TX80 (assuming 8-channel RAM) is the counter to that, but it does seem a little convoluted, almost diluting the Threadripper product stack with too many options.

I don’t really care past is the performance level right for the price and will it bring something meaningful that moves the market forward.

 

[TrM]

Threadripper uses the EPYC package, so Threadripper will has 8 chiplet positions. 48 and 64 core models will populate all 8 chiplets, 32 cores might populate all 8 with 4-core chiplets, or use 4 chiplets and 4 spacers. 16 and 24 core Threadrippers would use 4 chiplets and 4 spacers. And since you can't have 3-core chiplets you wont get a 12 core Threadripper.

Wasn’t the fact of a 12 core threadripper I was wondering if the new threadripper could only take chiplets and add the epic/ threadripper io and then make a cheap and dirty threadripper with no real issues that’s all but I guess it’s not possible so thank you for the answer

 

[LePhuronn]

I was wondering if the new threadripper could only take chiplets and add the epic/ threadripper io and then make a cheap and dirty threadripper with no real issues

I don't get you. Threadripper 3 will be taking chiplets and the IO die and adding them together just as you say. That's the entire Zen 2 design philosophy.

Now, whether Threadripper 3 has its own I/O die or uses the EPYC I/O die remains to be seen...

 

[LePhuronn]

I don’t really care past is the performance level right for the price and will it bring something meaningful that moves the market forward.

Well, the tech press bullied poor Lisa Su at Hot Chips into saying there will be a Threadripper 3 announcement in 2019, so we ain't got long to wait A paper launch in Q4 has been suggested though...

 

[Quartz]

Yeah, but I still see it as being a bit pointless,

Multiple NVME drives, 10 Gb ethernet.

 

[Deleted member 209350]

Multiple NVME drives, 10 Gb ethernet.

multiple nvme drives when you only have a 16c processor? Pointless.

Also, Ive never understood the need for 10gb internet when barely any ISP's even offer 1gb speeds?

 

[LePhuronn]

multiple nvme drives when you only have a 16c processor? Pointless.

Also, Ive never understood the need for 10gb internet when barely any ISP's even offer 1gb speeds?

I take it you've never worked in video production then.

You don't need crazy core counts if you're editing and rendering via GPU, but having a handful of them will keep the entire workstation subsystem nicely fed, especially when you're pulling your 4K 4:4:4 rushes off RAID NVMe. 10Gb is perfect for connecting to shared storage networks for the rushes, and then use the NVMe RAID for local rendering and previews.

Same can be said for games development, 3D modelling, CAD and engineering, etc. etc.

 

[DragonQ]

Also, Ive never understood the need for 10gb internet when barely any ISP's even offer 1gb speeds?

Internal networks.

 

[sandys]

multiple nvme drives when you only have a 16c processor? Pointless.

Also, Ive never understood the need for 10gb internet when barely any ISP's even offer 1gb speeds?

Not pointless at all, I have 8c and 4 NVMe shifts video about lovely, I don't have 10Gb yet but will do as my storage server is capable and I wish could dup stuff to it faster.

 

[Deleted member 209350]

I take it you've never worked in video production then.

You don't need crazy core counts if you're editing and rendering via GPU, but having a handful of them will keep the entire workstation subsystem nicely fed, especially when you're pulling your 4K 4:4:4 rushes off RAID NVMe. 10Gb is perfect for connecting to shared storage networks for the rushes, and then use the NVMe RAID for local rendering and previews.

Same can be said for games development, 3D modelling, CAD and engineering, etc. etc.

Nope I havent!

But I see, it makes more sense to me now though.

 

[Deleted member 209350]

Internal networks.

I get that, but why would you need 10gb? Like I would genuinely like to know why a network would need a 10gb port, when lets say for example, your ISP only provides 200mb? Surely you dont need a 10gb line for that... Or am I mistaken? I feel like I am but I would just like to know.

 

[Deleted member 209350]

Not pointless at all, I have 8c and 4 NVMe shifts video about lovely, I don't have 10Gb yet but will do as my storage server is capable and I wish could dup stuff to it faster.

I see the uses, but when mainstream chips have 16c now, doesnt a 16c for the threadripper line seem a bit redundant? At least make it 24c to start with. At least thats what I think anyway, who knows what AMD will do

 

[sandys]

I bought into TR with a 8c chip and have not needed more cores, GPU offload is cool, I could have bought a faster 1800x (faster for mainstream gaming needs ) because it is not cores split over two chips but the platform is what I wanted.

I still don't need more cores, more IPC would be welcome but it needs to be good, TR2xxx wasn't good enough for me to even considers, looking at 3xxx it is a possibility but I don't want to by 32c just because TR.

 

[DragonQ]

I get that, but why would you need 10gb? Like I would genuinely like to know why a network would need a 10gb port, when lets say for example, your ISP only provides 200mb? Surely you dont need a 10gb line for that... Or am I mistaken? I feel like I am but I would just like to know.

You say you "get it" and then immediately return to a line of questioning regarding internet speeds, so I'm not sure you do "get it". It's like asking why you'd want WiFi 6 over WiFi AC or Gigabit Ethernet over 100 Mb/s Ethernet. For faster connectivity between devices, of course.

 

[LePhuronn]

doesnt a 16c for the threadripper line seem a bit redundant?

See my previous reply about having 16 cores to keep your overall system sweet as a nut but still working off GPUs.

 

[LePhuronn]

I get that, but why would you need 10gb? Like I would genuinely like to know why a network would need a 10gb port, when lets say for example, your ISP only provides 200mb? Surely you dont need a 10gb line for that... Or am I mistaken? I feel like I am but I would just like to know.

Ignore external connections. We're talking purely internal networks here. If you're transferring gigabytes of data around to various parts of your network (let's say render farms) then having as fast a connection as possible is what you need.