AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

[MrPils]

Can you please elaborate for the less knowledgeable? What do you mean when you say "multi cluster chips struggle more with IF than single"... does this have any bearing on 5800x versus 5900x?

My own experience with the CPUs I have bought for myself and tested while building for others, a much higher proportion of single cluster cpus hit 1900IF than multi cluster cpus. On Ryzen 3000 you have a greater chance of hitting 1900IF on a 3800x or lower. I don't have a great sample size to call on, maybe 12 cpus in total of which 3 have been multi cluster. None of the multi cluster cpus I've had chance to test will post at 1900IF no matter what voltages, board or memory I used. I bought the XT myself expecting improvements, yet there were none.

In contrast I've yet to find a single cluster cpu that wouldnt hit 1900IF and I've had easily over 20 of them go through my hands. My own 3600xt is the "worst" and needs 1225mv IOD to be stable, but posts fine at 1150mv IOD.

(1 x R9 3900 which did 1833IF @ 1120mv IOD, 1866mhz @ 1200mv IOD, 1 x R9 3900x which did 1866IF @ 1180mv IOD and my own personal R9 3900XT which does 1866IF @ 1075mv IOD yet still black screens at 1900IF regardless of voltage used)

 

[Stu]

Thanks mate. Using a Arctic 360 II as well that has the vrm fan and as you can see from the picture below, the case has a lot of airflow with highly positive pressure.

Spoiler

I was just wondering if i should consider getting a better board, but based on your feedback i won't bother as I've had no issues so far with this one.

Just curious, is your rad setup as exhaust or pulling in fresh air?

 

[MrPils]

Thanks mate. Using a Arctic 360 II as well that has the vrm fan and as you can see from the picture below, the case has a lot of airflow with highly positive pressure.

I was just wondering if i should consider getting a better board, but based on your feedback i won't bother as I've had no issues so far with this one.

Yeah I wouldn't bother upgrading unless there's something particularly nice and shiny that takes your fancy. As long as what you have isn't struggling with anything or annoying you for any reason just stick with it. Its stuff like LLC settings, termination resistances and secondary memory voltage adjustments that you're missing out on compared to the higher end boards, and frankly unless you're hardcore ocing they don't matter. You've got a solid daily there

Picking for ITX is a lot trickier, mainly down to limited heatsinking and mosfets in close proximity to each other in the VRMs. Solid ATX and mATX boards if buying now would be the B550 Tomahawk and Mortar. Those will handle anything.

 

[MegaPinches]

Running high IF is one thing but using it day to day is another as you will encounter infrequent sound buzzes and stutters that might not become apparent for a day or more. My 3600 wouldn't do over 1767 IF back in November '19 without rare sound buzzes and stutters but I'm re testing it all now the bios are more mature and so far 1866 seems good. I never bothered earlier as I though IF ability was 100% down to chip quality alone, just got wind that AGESA updates can help with IF ceiling. Though Ive always kept up to date with it just never bothered trying as its so time consuming. I too a bit disappointed if 5000 series can't do 2000mhz IF.

 

[LtMatt]

Just curious, is your rad setup as exhaust or pulling in fresh air?

It's setup as intake (pulling in fresh air) to help low CPU temperatures. My 3950X appears to be a decent sample and so to achieve the best frequencies i have intake and positive pressure to keep the dust out. Seems to do the GPU no harm either as it gets plenty of cool air.

 

[Robert896r1]

Any clue when Unify-X 2Dimm is showing up in the UK? Really don't want a 4 DIMM.

 

[MrPils]

Running high IF is one thing but using it day to day is another as you will encounter infrequent sound buzzes and stutters that might not become apparent for a day or more. My 3600 wouldn't do over 1767 IF back in November '19 without rare sound buzzes and stutters but I'm re testing it all now the bios are more mature and so far 1866 seems good. I never bothered earlier as I though IF ability was 100% down to chip quality alone, just got wind that AGESA updates can help with IF ceiling. Though Ive always kept up to date with it just never bothered trying as its so time consuming. I too a bit disappointed if 5000 series can't do 2000mhz IF.

Sound issue is down to vSOC being too low or too close to vIOD. This was discovered within a week of launch and was the reason AMD split off vIOD and vDDG with AGESA 1.0.0.4. Earlier bioses auto tuned vSOC to within 30mv of vDDG, later ones obey a 50mv limit. If you can post with 1900IF you can get it stable, always. You may need to really pump vSOC so that vDDG can go to 1200mv+ to do so, perhaps beyond what you're comfortable with but even in that case 1866IF will let you drop it down to daily safe range as you have now discovered

 

[MrPils]

... My 3950X appears to be a decent sample...

Understatement of 2020 goes to Lt.Matt To get that many good cores in one cluster is insane, congrats. If I had that 3950x I probably wouldn't replace it, that is top 1% of silicon easy. Record breaker in the right hands.

 

[LtMatt]

Understatement of 2020 goes to Lt.Matt To get that many good cores in one cluster is insane, congrats. If I had that 3950x I probably wouldn't replace it, that is top 1% of silicon easy. Record breaker in the right hands.

I don't know if it's that good, i only achieved those with PBO and FMax enabled, but yeah its decent sample at least i think. Bought a five months ago from OcuK funnily enough.

I want the IPC improvements though so will be moving it on in a few days hopefully for sale on the members market and Ebay/Gumtree.

 

[~>Dg<~]

very well played....just before the sale

 

[MrPils]

very well played....just before the sale

LMAO

 

[LtMatt]

very well played....just before the sale

Good luck with that sale.

It's an expensive hobby this tech lark.

 

[MegaPinches]

Sound issue is down to vSOC being too low or too close to vIOD. This was discovered within a week of launch and was the reason AMD split off vIOD and vDDG with AGESA 1.0.0.4. Earlier bioses auto tuned vSOC to within 30mv of vDDG, later ones obey a 50mv limit. If you can post with 1900IF you can get it stable, always. You may need to really pump vSOC so that vDDG can go to 1200mv+ to do so, perhaps beyond what you're comfortable with but even in that case 1866IF will let you drop it down to daily safe range as you have now discovered

Ok cool good too know, though off memory I tried all sorts of VDDG settings (EDIT: I remember IOD being separate in bios, maybe this was after I did all my testing, weeks of it, painful!) and higher vsoc at the time last year, this time round Ive let the x570 Auros Elite handle that as Ive noticed it applies different settings than it used to and each ram speed 3533, 3600, 3733 has its own profile on Auto for VSoc/VDDG/P etc and so far all of them have worked with no sound buzzes but I haven't gamed yet, 3600 and above used to give me big stutters but were rare so its not something I can test quickly but I'm confident-ish they are working now. I can post 1900IF now as well which was a complete no go back last year, though Ive not benched it properly yet.

 

[Destination]

When is the review embargo lifted?

 

[alec]

Nobody knows, apart from on 5.11.20

 

[MrPils]

Ok cool good too know, though off memory I tried all sorts of VDDG settings (EDIT: I remember IOD being separate in bios, maybe this was after I did all my testing, weeks of it, painful!) and higher vsoc at the time last year, this time round Ive let the x570 Auros Elite handle that as Ive noticed it applies different settings than it used to and each ram speed 3533, 3600, 3733 has its own profile on Auto for VSoc/VDDG/P etc and so far all of them have worked with no sound buzzes but I haven't gamed yet, 3600 and above used to give me big stutters but were rare so its not something I can test quickly but I'm confident-ish they are working now. I can post 1900IF now as well which was a complete no go back last year, though Ive not benched it properly yet.

Yeah its a balance between vDDG and vIOD that you need. When it was all one voltage the chips suffered from having vDDG too high, it works best when its a decent chunk lower than vIOD (100mv to 200mv lower). vDDG too close to vIOD causes a no post, vSOC less than 50mv above vIOD also causes a no post.

I tend to set 1.25vSOC, 1.2vIOD and 1.05vDDG then start tuning down fast. Go down 50mv at a time on all 3 voltages until you no post then bump back up until you find your minimum. At that point whatever magic governs the quality of your chips infinity fabric takes over, some only need a tickle over minimums required to post to be stable, others you have to really give a kick up the rear to get stable at 1900IF. In the latter case just use 1900IF for benching if that's your thing, otherwise run 1866/3733 which will need WAY less voltage. Once youve done that you can try tuning vDDG to its exact preferred value. You'll find when you get vDDG spot on it helps a little with memory and cpu core stability. In terms of benching there's a lot of variables that make a good cpu, but without being able to post at 1900IF anything 3D, Pi or Linpack related you're at a massive disadvantage if trying to top score. Even if you end up with a bad core clocker you can still compete in a lot of benches as long as you can do 1900IF. If you cant there's really only cinebench.

LN2 throws this out the window, actually it possibly reverses it. Cold bug seems worse on cpus that hit 1900IF easily.

 

[willhub]

Can't work out if the 5800x is a must have upgrade, if my 3700x is no longer good enough for gaming, perhaps it's really bottlenecking at 1440p and even 4k the 3080, but then again I'm seeing that it's not fully utilised in games too.

So for gaming is this really a NEEDED upgrade?

 

[MegaPinches]

Yeah its a balance between vDDG and vIOD that you need. When it was all one voltage the chips suffered from having vDDG too high, it works best when its a decent chunk lower than vIOD (100mv to 200mv lower). vDDG too close to vIOD causes a no post, vSOC less than 50mv above vIOD also causes a no post.

I tend to set 1.25vSOC, 1.2vIOD and 1.05vDDG then start tuning down fast. Go down 50mv at a time on all 3 voltages until you no post then bump back up until you find your minimum. At that point whatever magic governs the quality of your chips infinity fabric takes over, some only need a tickle over minimums required to post to be stable, others you have to really give a kick up the rear to get stable at 1900IF. In the latter case just use 1900IF for benching if that's your thing, otherwise run 1866/3733 which will need WAY less voltage. Once youve done that you can try tuning vDDG to its exact preferred value. You'll find when you get vDDG spot on it helps a little with memory and cpu core stability. In terms of benching there's a lot of variables that make a good cpu, but without being able to post at 1900IF anything 3D, Pi or Linpack related you're at a massive disadvantage if trying to top score. Even if you end up with a bad core clocker you can still compete in a lot of benches as long as you can do 1900IF. If you cant there's really only cinebench.

LN2 throws this out the window, actually it possibly reverses it. Cold bug seems worse on cpus that hit 1900IF easily.

Alright good stuff that, ive never set my vDDG IOD and vDDG CCD differently (what they labelled on Gigabyte bios), always had them paired the same. Yea I'm playing around with 1900IF now but certainly won't be using it for 24/7 esp with those high vSOC, though at the moment I'm stressing 1900IF with the same settings as my 3733 profile:

vDDG IOD/CCD 1.05, vDDP 1.0, vSoc 1.1, so far its holding up.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Can't work out if the 5800x is a must have upgrade, if my 3700x is no longer good enough for gaming, perhaps it's really bottlenecking at 1440p and even 4k the 3080, but then again I'm seeing that it's not fully utilised in games too.

So for gaming is this really a NEEDED upgrade?

Not really at 1440p unless in some specific circumstances. E.g play cpu limiting games like FS2020. Sure you’ll get more FPS in CS GO but you’ll already be getting 250-300+ so it will make no meaningful difference.

I wouldn’t have any frothing FOMO on launch day, you already have a very good CPU. Wait for proper in depth reviews for your use case and picking up a better value upgrade (e.g. 5700) after Xmas.

 

[Twinz]

Can't work out if the 5800x is a must have upgrade, if my 3700x is no longer good enough for gaming, perhaps it's really bottlenecking at 1440p and even 4k the 3080, but then again I'm seeing that it's not fully utilised in games too.

So for gaming is this really a NEEDED upgrade?

I plan on getting a 3080 or 6800XT and don't plan on upgrading my 3800X until 2nd half of next year after the hype and prices come down. I'm running 4K VR though, so I doubt my 3800X will be the weak link.