AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

[LePhuronn]

Didn't some boards do pcie 4 before being bios locked out too? That seems shady if so

What's shady about being consistent with your product offering? Some boards could handle the PCIe 4 signal in the top PCIe slot, some couldn't. Some boards didn't have the top PCIe slot as the 16x slot, so couldn't be used for GPUs anyway. Some vendors actively didn't implement PCIe 4 even if their boards could support it.

So instead of having a massive confused mess of support with which boards and which vendors can do PCIe in which slots, AMD just pulled the entire thing. Don't see how that's "shady".

 

[LePhuronn]

That is a crap excuse if AMD uses it - my B450I mini-ITX motherboard has a 6 phase CPU VRM so it would be fine. None of that doubled rubbish either and as it is mini-ITX the PCB has more layers too. Plus like Intel they will have lower TDP SKUs so I don't buy it as a VRM problem.

This is what the first leaked B550 motherboards looked like:
https://videocardz.com/newz/first-amd-b550-motherboard-pictured

Low end VRM,no VRM cooling and no chipset heatsink . If the B450 is locked out then this is an Intel style money grab.

Oh come off it, that's a cheap budget board for the Chinese market. SOYO even named it "budget" ffs.

If you really think that's indicative of B550 across the entire global product stack then you're just reaching.

 

[Curlyriff]

What nause would try to pair a 16-core with a cheap B450 mobo? Those are for pros and content creators that wouldnt make such a ridiculous purchase to save $100 lol.

The B450 mobo is completely fine for the 16 core CPU though. Literally no reason not to use one. There plenty of decent boards in that range suitable.

What muppet spends £400 on a board whom doesn't need it at all because they run fine on boards at the £100 mark.

 

[Boot_Loop]

The B450 mobo is completely fine for the 16 core CPU though. Literally no reason not to use one. There plenty of decent boards in that range suitable.

What muppet spends £400 on a board whom doesn't need it at all because they run fine on boards at the £100 mark.

Ok to be fair I didnt know the B450s were decent for 3950X, that's great.

 

[Martini1991]

Oh come off it, that's a cheap budget board for the Chinese market. SOYO even named it "budget" ffs.

If you really think that's indicative of B550 across the entire global product stack then you're just reaching.

I think you're completely missing what he's saying.

Not that I particularly care as long as my X570 Asus Strix - F can support a Ryzen 4XXX 16 core.

 

[Spikey]

So, guessing going from my trust 4790k will be a good upgrade going to the 4000 series? Finally an excuse to upgrade? Been rocking this for 5 years now!

 

[Troezar]

There's a reason the more expensive boards are...more expensive. Higher build quality, better components, more likely to handle high end CPUs with high power draw.

I suspect some users world like to think the £100 boards should be a good as the £300 boards but just have less features. If that was the case I'd have spent less myself, although the X570 Tomahawk is looking like a good compromise.

 

[Skynet5]

The B450 mobo is completely fine for the 16 core CPU though. Literally no reason not to use one. There plenty of decent boards in that range suitable.

What muppet spends £400 on a board whom doesn't need it at all because they run fine on boards at the £100 mark.

That's me!

 

[LePhuronn]

I think you're completely missing what he's saying.

Yes, I am completely missing the point of what he's saying because he seems to be contradicting himself.

He says Zen 3 is rumoured to blocked from 400 series chipsets, yet presents a quotation that says Zen 3 will work fine on B450 after a BIOS update. And posts a picture of a budget Chinese board as if it's an indication of B550 quality, yet even the A320 boards from Asus, Gigabyte and Asrock were that sparse.

So please Martin, do tell me what his point is because I'm clearly missing it. And that's quite unusual for CAT.

 

[Martini1991]

Yes, I am completely missing the point of what he's saying because he seems to be contradicting himself.

He says Zen 3 is rumoured to blocked from 400 series chipsets, yet presents a quotation that says Zen 3 will work fine on B450 after a BIOS update. And posts a picture of a budget Chinese board as if it's an indication of B550 quality, yet even the A320 boards from Asus, Gigabyte and Asrock were that sparse.

So please Martin, do tell me what his point is because I'm clearly missing it. And that's quite unusual for CAT.

With it being from CAT, I always find it to be contradiction city

However, he's basing the poor VRM set up on that B550 board, that the reason for potential B450 lock out isn't down to VRM's, because that crap board which will have a weaker VRM set up than his own superior B450 for example.
Not that all B550 will look like that motherboard, but because that's a baseline.

 

[LePhuronn]

However, he's basing the poor VRM set up on that B550 board, that the reason for potential B450 lock out isn't down to VRM's, because that crap board which will have a weaker VRM set up than his own superior B450 for example.
Not that all B550 will look like that motherboard, but because that's a baseline.

Gotcha.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

maybe a vrm issue? Looking at the compatibility list for amd very few boards from pre X570 fully support the 3950x. So if AMD is raising power limits on Zen 3 to get higher clocks then I can belive that a huge amount of old boards y not be compatible.

...............

That is a crap excuse if AMD uses it - my B450I mini-ITX motherboard has a 6 phase CPU VRM so it would be fine. None of that doubled rubbish either and as it is mini-ITX the PCB has more layers too. Plus like Intel they will have lower TDP SKUs so I don't buy it as a VRM problem.

................

Oh come off it, that's a cheap budget board for the Chinese market. SOYO even named it "budget" ffs.

If you really think that's indicative of B550 across the entire global product stack then you're just reaching.

Why don't your read what Grim5 said,and actually think a bit about the reasons being given. You just proved my point without realising it!

If crap VRMs,crap PCBs,etc are the reason AMD "needs" to lockout B450,then how come the first leaked B550 motherboard,and as you say is "budget" and "cheap" can support Zen3? How come the decent B450 motherboards,which have much better VRMs,better PCBs and actually a chipset heatsink cannot support it? Its the same excuse they made for not allowing PCI-E 4.0 on B450,despite B550A which is a rebadged OEM B450 partially supporting it.

I didn't buy the PCI-E 4.0 excuse then and I don't buy it now. I am going to be carefully looking at the B550 motherboards to see how different they actually are.

Yes, I am completely missing the point of what he's saying because he seems to be contradicting himself.

He says Zen 3 is rumoured to blocked from 400 series chipsets, yet presents a quotation that says Zen 3 will work fine on B450 after a BIOS update. And posts a picture of a budget Chinese board as if it's an indication of B550 quality, yet even the A320 boards from Asus, Gigabyte and Asrock were that sparse.

So please Martin, do tell me what his point is because I'm clearly missing it. And that's quite unusual for CAT.

Again link up a few points. Schenker is a laptop OEM,and that China Times article is from Taiwan,quoting OEM sources.

So its apparent,that OEMs can support B450 in their OEM systems with a microcode update. So if DIY B450 motherboards cannot support,it sounds like artifical segmentation. OFC, we need to see some more details of the differences in the ASMedia chipsets, but unless the media is getting muddled it is worrying IMHO.

Plus AMD didn't even manage to launch B550 for a year,so most mainstream Zen2 owners are using a B450.

Intel did this same crap with 100/200 series motherboards and it was proven certain OEM motherboards could support CFL and just not SKL/KL.

People call out Intel for doing this crap,as they did with CFL,but if AMD does it people show disbelief. IF AMD tries this they deserve the same criticism as Intel.

I hope this is some AMD PR confusion on their part!

With it being from CAT, I always find it to be contradiction city

However, he's basing the poor VRM set up on that B550 board, that the reason for potential B450 lock out isn't down to VRM's, because that crap board which will have a weaker VRM set up than his own superior B450 for example.
Not that all B550 will look like that motherboard, but because that's a baseline.

I don't try to spell things out as I expect people can link the dots together. That teaches me!

But I also remember AMD is capable of doing some crappy stuff with sockets. I am hopeful the reviewers have got in some kind of muddle regarding this...you never know with AMD PR being vague.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Didn't some boards do pcie 4 before being bios locked out too? That seems shady if so

What's shady about being consistent with your product offering? Some boards could handle the PCIe 4 signal in the top PCIe slot, some couldn't. Some boards didn't have the top PCIe slot as the 16x slot, so couldn't be used for GPUs anyway. Some vendors actively didn't implement PCIe 4 even if their boards could support it.

So instead of having a massive confused mess of support with which boards and which vendors can do PCIe in which slots, AMD just pulled the entire thing. Don't see how that's "shady".

Actually any problems will reflect on the motherboard OEMs themselves not AMD,so the fact some wanted to introduce PCI-E 4.0,tells me they thought their motherboards were fine. Also nothing stopping the OEMs,releasing them as BETA BIOSes(not final BIOSes),but it appears those which did want PCI-E 4.0,were forced to remove it with later AGESA versions.

The OEM B550A which is a rebadged B450 has had partial PCI-E 4.0 support for months - so trying to supress PCI-E 4.0 from the better B450 motherboards at least IMHO,is artificial product segmentation:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/f376m8/amd_b550_chipset_vs_b550a_b450_explained_asrock/

Gamersnexus tested one and they think there is no difference from a B450,and its internal name was B450X. Look at the chipset,it has no heatsink! Many mini-ITX motherboards such as mine,tend to have much more PCB layers,and a closer location of the CPU and chipset to the physical PCI-E slot and M2 slot. So the whole problem of signal length and needing retimers,is less of a problem in this situation,ie,there should at least be partial PCI-E 4.0 support either for the PCI-E slot or M2 slot for those motherboards.

Again,this is moving towards what Intel was doing too,and its not a good direction.

Like I said before,I hope this is some PR confusion from AMD,but if they start doing this stuff,then we can't really mock Intel too much either.

 

[LeMson]

Sh sh sh shady

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Sh sh sh shady

Well,we will see,I am still hopeful it's a PR confusion,as I can't see the point of me getting the B550 especially if AM5 is released in 2022.

However,in the end it's AMD who looses out not me TBF. If they allow my B450 to support Zen3,then I will get a new Ryzen 5 4600X or a Ryzen 7 4700X. But if they don't,I will get a Ryzen 7 3700X,but by then I will consider it a lower value product than a Ryzen 7 4700X,so they get less money in the end or I will just buy it secondhand.

It's in their own interest to allow people to upgrade. They might do the whole,your old CPU can work in the new motherboard thing they did years ago,but if I have to change my motherboard,I might as well buy a new CPU,etc. So better to wait a few years and see what Intel also has to offer on top of this,which is more problem for them,as Intel might have actually have fixed many of their problems.

 

[LeMson]

Well,we will see,I am still hopeful it's a PR confusion,as I can't see the point of me getting the B550 especially if AM5 is released in 2022.

However,in the end it's AMD who looses out not me TBF. If they allow my B450 to support Zen3,then I will get a Ryzen 5 4600X or a Ryzen 7 4700X. But if they don't,I will get a cut price Ryzen 7 3700X,but by then I will consider it a lower value product,than it is now,so they get less money in the end or I will just buy it secondhand.

It's in their own interest to allow people to upgrade. They might do the whole,your old CPU can work in the new motherboard thing they did years ago,but if I have to change my motherboard,I might as well buy a new CPU,etc. So better to wait a few years and see what Intel also has to offer on top of this,which is more problem for them,as Intel might have actually have fixed many of their problems.

Same I'm sat here with all but an amd cpu to drop in my rig for an upgrade, was gonna pull the trigger on a 3800x but then there was talk of something to upset 3600 lookers on Thursday, so I'm waiting to hear that news.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Same I'm sat here with all but an amd cpu to drop in my rig for an upgrade, was gonna pull the trigger on a 3800x but then there was talk of something to upset 3600 lookers on Thursday, so I'm waiting to hear that news.

When I upgraded my system,I went with a more expensive B450 motherboard with better VRMs,for better CPU support. However,AM4 mini-ITX motherboards can be pricier than Intel equivalents especially when I was building my system. I don't overclock,so a cheaper B450 in hindsight might have been a better choice and the Intel B series equivalents with similar features were significantly cheaper too!

I am currently on a Ryzen 5 2600,but was thinking of getting a Ryzen 5 4600X or Ryzen 7 4700X. AMD is moving to an 8 core CCX it appears.

Spoiler

This will no doubt help,especially in games based on older engines,where even Zen2 still does lose to Intel. This is why Zen3 is actually something which will help in the few truly CPU limited games I play,and possibly could even beat Intel in them.

A Zen2 CPU would also be an upgrade,but a cheaper Intel CPU would be close to it in those situations,and in light of a Zen3 launch,Zen2 products would be lower value like the Zen+ products are now.

We will see where this goes,but I don't know whether I might not bother upgrading now and see how AM5 or whatever Intel has out by then pans out. Its only probably another 18 months or so away.

 

[LeMson]

I have the tomahawk max, was awesome when I tried it with a 3800x I borrowed. Obv dreaming of a 4950x going in it one day tho ;p

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I have the tomahawk max, was awesome when I tried it with a 3800x I borrowed. Obv dreaming of a 4950x going in it one day tho ;p

I have less stringent requirements - my B450 motherboard is only one of two,maybe,three which have a true 6 phase CPU VRM,but I only intend to use the 65W TDP line of CPUs if I can. It just means less cooling,but I thought a better VRM would help in case,AMD needed to increase the TDP and actual power consumption with newer generations,so I would not be caught out with a motherboard with worse VRMs. I also make sure I use a horizontal air cooler,so the VRMs have enough cool air.

 

[jigger]

Actually any problems will reflect on the motherboard OEMs themselves not AMD,so the fact some wanted to introduce PCI-E 4.0,tells me they thought their motherboards were fine. Also nothing stopping the OEMs,releasing them as BETA BIOSes(not final BIOSes),but it appears those which did want PCI-E 4.0,were forced to remove it with later AGESA versions.

The OEM B550A which is a rebadged B450 has had partial PCI-E 4.0 support for months - so trying to supress PCI-E 4.0 from the better B450 motherboards at least IMHO,is artificial product segmentation:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/f376m8/amd_b550_chipset_vs_b550a_b450_explained_asrock/

Gamersnexus tested one and they think there is no difference from a B450,and its internal name was B450X. Look at the chipset,it has no heatsink! Many mini-ITX motherboards such as mine,tend to have much more PCB layers,and a closer location of the CPU and chipset to the physical PCI-E slot and M2 slot. So the whole problem of signal length and needing retimers,is less of a problem in this situation,ie,there should at least be partial PCI-E 4.0 support either for the PCI-E slot or M2 slot for those motherboards.

Again,this is moving towards what Intel was doing too,and its not a good direction.

Like I said before,I hope this is some PR confusion from AMD,but if they start doing this stuff,then we can't really mock Intel too much either.

PCI-E 4 signalling on some (most-maybe all) of the older boards is very dodgy. You might get away with it on a gaming build but it’s not something you could certify for.