AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

[humbug]

No they told system integrators and motherboard OEMs it would work. Schenker is a reasonably well known OEM in Germany. They literally said AMD told them officially it WOULD work,and then found out the same way we all did. You seem to be ignoring this.


AMD told Schenker "though official channels". So in the end with HUB,saying motherboard OEMs have also found out at the same time. If AMD has pragmatic reasons,so does Intel despite Asus also telling us otherwise. No different.

The fact is they pulled the same stunt with the RX5600XT after OEMs had validated the cards,etc. They plonked a new BIOS just before launch,which most OEMs could actually test for it. The fact is if this is what you do for your own partners,then we are nothing in the scheme of things,as we don't have direct contact with AMD.





OTH,there are those which support later chips too. You can make selective BIOSes to target individial users.

So if a Zen3 compatible BIOS can support Zen2/Zen3,nothing stopping Zen+ to Zen3,etc and that is what some here don't realise. The package you download can selectively support specific CPUs.

But the problem is again,the reference default BIOS chip size,is mandated by AMD,so as Martini said that is really also AMD not making a more robust base specification.

Like I said both system integrators and apparently motherboard OEMs thought it was fine,so basically AMD really needs to work on its corporate communication then,because that does not bode well IMHO. Doing these sorts of last minute decisions just like their 5600XT launch,ie,all the last minute BIOSes,does not really help their cause.We always wonder why laptops and prebuilt PCs,seem to have more Intel CPUs,and Nvidia graphics cards,if this is the way they communicate things,its not entirely surprising to me.

OEM's rebranded some B450 boards B550A and they are Zen 3 compatible... i know this, i know those MAX boards would support Zen 3, how many times do i need to say that? i'm not ignoring it.

AMD are not denying Zen 3 will work with older board, we can't be sure that's true for all of them...

They have an entirely different reason for not supporting Zen 3 on older boards, officially their problem is not all of them do support Zen 3 and that creates a messy problem. If you want to tell me this is a lie you're not making a good faith argument CAT, you don't know that, this is not what OEM's said.

Edit: actually i don't know if B550A are Zen 3 compatible.

 

[Martini1991]

What if AMD renamed the socket for 500 series boards?

That'd be worse than anything Intel has done.

 

[humbug]

That'd be worse than anything Intel has done.

It would be disagreeable but i don't think its as bad as renaming the same CPU and then changing the pin layout on the socket.

 

[Martini1991]

I must remember most of those socket changes (and a few others) quite differently to you then.

Some of those sockets ended up being single series sockets.

Pretty sure FM1 and FM2 were just utterly abandoned after their initial CPU's.

AM3 never ended up getting an exclusive CPU (Bulldozer ended up getting moved to AM3+)

AM3+ CPU's then ended up getting absolutely railroaded after Bulldozer launched and failed, only getting Piledriver a year later then support dropped all together despite Steamroller/Excavator which ended up getting releases on FM2+.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I certainly agree and understand what you are **** off about, I do see why AMD has done this too. The confusion that arised on a lot of forums with regards having to do bios updates prior to install the next gen CPUs was high. Even worse for those that bought a 350/450 board only to find it required a update for the CPU they have. They got some stick for it to IIRC.

Don't make it any better for people like yourself on previous gen boards though.

Well,I at least I upgraded a bit before Zen2,so its annoying,but at least I have more usage than the newer folk on the platform(although my motherboard is pretty high end for a B450 and more like an X470).I feel sorry(and especially annoyed) for the people I know who in the last year went onto Zen2,but only had a B450 or X570 choice,and went B450. It sucks for them especially.They are doubly screwed really,as this is a one generation upgrade if AMD does not budge. AMD has marketing people on Reddit,etc and should have said something,but if their own partners didn't know,I really can't even have expected that! But then at the same time,Threadripper 2000 users on X399,had a one generation upgrade too,and those motherboards were expensive.

One of my mates nearly got a Ryzen 7 3700X and a B450 recently(they didn't want the small fan on the X570),but had to delay the purchase,so got luckty IMHO! At least they can get a B550 now and the new Zen2 refresh if that happens.

 

[Martini1991]

That's not right, Zen 3 is an evolution of Zen 2 so the gains will be tangible, but not earth-shattering (8 core CCX, shared L3 chiplet cache, improved latency, etc.). Zen 4 is getting a complete redesign of the chiplet, shrink to the IO die and a boat load of other things (allegedly).

Zen 4 is the big leap, not Zen 3.

If the 4XXX is an evolution support would be more likely to be expected (And likely why there's no chipset issue).

By the logic of Zen 4 being much more, it's likely that when Zen 4 comes there will be no forwards compatibility of X570/B550 motherboards (Which is absolutely fine and AMD would be unscathed if that was the case) and can be released with a new socket and new chipset.

However, because they've gated off 4XXX support, it'll be worse when the next round comes and compatibility doesn't exist as that's potentially two releases in a row that have removed Backwards compatibility.

Again, I take no issue with it having with Zen 4 and would expect it, but not with the Zen 3 stuff.

 

[kitfit1]

Let me throw this into the mix as well. I think all B550's now have an AMD chipset as of course do all X570 boards. All previous AM4 boards have ASMedia chipsets. Now call me a cynic, is this actually more to do with AMD dropping support completely from ASMedia more than anything else ? Could it even be that AMD chipset's get a firmware update along with a bios update ? If that is the case, then obviously any mobo pre B550/x570 will not work regardless of ROM size...........................just a thought peeps.

 

[Martini1991]

Just to point out the other side of this IIRC X570 boards dont support original Ryzen 1xxx series CPUs.

Seem to recall it was hit and miss with some X/B3xx boards supporting the 2xxx chips.

This is another crackers thing.

Because of the whole "flexible" upgrading that's touted with AMD, it's entirely possible people could have bought X570 motherboards with 1st generation Ryzen chips with the view to upgrade later on (A strategy that AMD has went with officially before with AM3+)
All of this confusion is at the hands of the one whom owns the platform surely.

 

[Martini1991]

Let me throw this into the mix as well. I think all B550's now have an AMD chipset as of course do all X570 boards. All previous AM4 boards have ASMedia chipsets. Now call me a cynic, is this actually more to do with AMD dropping support completely from ASMedia more than anything else ? Could it even be that AMD chipset's get a firmware update along with a bios update ? If that is the case, then obviously any mobo pre B550/x570 will not work regardless of ROM size...........................just a thought peeps.

Sorry, aren't they all AMD chipsets?
X370 surely is an AMD chipset etc?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Let me throw this into the mix as well. I think all B550's now have an AMD chipset as of course do all X570 boards. All previous AM4 boards have ASMedia chipsets. Now call me a cynic, is this actually more to do with AMD dropping support completely from ASMedia more than anything else ? Could it even be that AMD chipset's get a firmware update along with a bios update ? If that is the case, then obviously any mobo pre B550/x570 will not work regardless of ROM size...........................just a thought peeps.

B550 is ASMedia AFAIK.

Edit!!

https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/new...s-b550-and-a520-chipset-production-in-q1-2020

 

[kitfit1]

I could be completely wrong on this, because i have only owned a CH6 and a CH8. I know the CH8 is an AMD chipset, just never needed to look at the CH6 chipset.

 

[humbug]

As far as i know 300 and 400 series boards are ASMedia, 570 series boards are actually the IO die from the Zen 2 CPU's...

500 series boards BTW are Zen 2 boards, not Zen 3, but will be Zen 3 compatible.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The X570 is an AMD chipset,but B450 and B550 are ASMedia.

 

[humbug]

The X570 is an AMD chipset,but B450 and B550 are ASMedia.

Right, tho its not so much a chipset, i heard its actually the IO die from the Zen 2 CPU's, they just used an IO die as the Chipset.

 

[kitfit1]

The X570 is an AMD chipset,but B450 and B550 are ASMedia.

Yep, should have done a bit more research before posting

 

[kitfit1]

Right, tho its not so much a chipset, i heard its actually the IO die from the Zen 2 CPU's, they just used an IO die as the Chipset.

Have you actually seen the size of the chipset ? No way is it just an IO die.

 

[MartinPrince]

They told a system integrator as far back as April,the B450 would work with a microcode update. It's been posted enough times here - the system integrator had to find out via the AMD official release,the same day we all did!
You had AMD making charts like the following:

Well as Ryzen 4000 is not out yet then that chart is still correct and if Ryzen 4000 does not come out until 2021 then they would have complied with that particular press image.

If I was being slightly cynical I would surmise that if Covid19 didn't exist then this discussion may not exist. It would tie in with a trend that I've seen from a few companies over the past month or so. You're more likely to get past 'bad news' when you have bigger problems to deal with. Though this is more of a 2+2=22 musing and I prefer to deal with facts so I will reserve final judgement until Ryzen actually 4000 launches, whenever that is be it this year or next etc.

 

[RavenXXX2]

That slide shows support up to 2020, not in it.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Well as Ryzen 4000 is not out yet then that chart is still correct and if Ryzen 4000 does not come out until 2021 then they would have complied with that particular press image.

If I was being slightly cynical I would surmise that if Covid19 didn't exist then this discussion may not exist. It would tie in with a trend that I've seen from a few companies over the past month or so. You're more likely to get past 'bad news' when you have bigger problems to deal with. Though this is more of a 2+2=22 musing and I prefer to deal with facts so I will reserve final judgement until Ryzen actually 4000 launches, whenever that is be it this year or next etc.

Well they apparently told their motherboard partners,and told system integrators such as Schenker,that B450 would be compatible. Apparently in they only found out when AMD made its press statement,that B450 wasn't compatible.



There was even reporting in Taiwanese newspapers,which report on industry news,that B450 would be compatible,when talking about the ASMedia new chipsets,ie, A520 and B550. ASMedia is Taiwanese.

Edit!!

I wonder if this is Covid19 related,ie,AMD cutting support costs??

 

[Grim5]

That slide shows support up to 2020, not in it.

Yes and no

It's a marketing slide you cannot make assumptions about the axis at face value or you will be burned. Every tech company in existence modified the axis on charts to their benefit

I want to agree with you because 2020 is right at the end with no timeline after on that chart however if AMd marketing wanted to be more truthf then they should have just taken 2020 off and left 2019 with a long time line after it to indicate all of 2019 support