AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 14 May 2020 at 14:59

humbug said:
Edit: Ah.... shame.

Not exactly,as memory-CCX latency will be lower,so we can see how much chiplets affect gaming performance.

Augustus said:
It's been suggested previously that the APUs are monolithic because the GPU is highly dependent on the system RAM and everything being on the same die is better for this. It seems plausible and so in this instance an I/O die is worse but with the lack of anything to compare it to who knows?

There are probably a number of design considerations coming together making APUs what they are right now.

I'm sure all of us are interested in the possibilities chiplets bring in being able to mix/match CPU, GPU, memory and asics onto a single package. Lots to talk about there.

It was done down to power consumption AFAIK,as IF consumes a ton of power. A monolithic design requires less IF hops than a chiplet design IIRC,and AMD used the power savings,to improve clockspeeds.

Augustus · 14 May 2020 at 15:30

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Not exactly,as memory-CCX latency will be lower,so we can see how much chiplets affect gaming performance.

Watching what AMD does with APU derived Athlons will be useful for this. Should we get an Athlon (monolithic, GPU disabled) that can be compared to a Ryzen (chiplet) that will hopefully tell us something.

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
It was done down to power consumption AFAIK,as IF consumes a ton of power. A monolithic design requires less IF hops than a chiplet design IIRC,and AMD used the power savings,to improve clockspeeds.

Yep, package size is probably another one to add too.

Augustus · 14 May 2020 at 16:25

B is the new X

Exhibit A: B550 Aorus Master

Exhibit B: B550 Aorus Master

MSI Tomahawk, now Gigabyte Aorus, ladies and gentlemen we have a trend forming.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 14 May 2020 at 17:18

Augustus said:
B is the new X

Exhibit A: B550 Aorus Master

Exhibit B: B550 Aorus Master

MSI Tomahawk, now Gigabyte Aorus, ladies and gentlemen we have a trend forming.

AMD AM4 motherboards were not always that cheap,especially for the mini-ITX ones I used. I expect A520 pricing will actually be quite high in some cases.

Jono8 · 14 May 2020 at 18:43

Could anyone who is knowledgeable about it speculate whether the 4000 series latency upgrades will finally make these cpu's competitive at the top tier in DAW/DSP applications?

I saw a review based on this that showed that at the higher core counts the 3000 series still fell well behind the Intel equivalent (in core numbers, not price/perf)

Im hoping this may no longer be the case and that a 12 or 16 core 4000 series may be seriously worth considering as an upgrade from my 8700 i7.

With the ipc, latency and clock improvements it looks like the 4000 series is going to wallop intels 10th gen.

GregI · 14 May 2020 at 18:49

Apparently the leaker is well respected so can be trusted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/gjo2ad/rumor_zen3_will_exceed_expectations_just_like/

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 14 May 2020 at 18:54

Jono8 said:
Could anyone who is knowledgeable about it speculate whether the 4000 series latency upgrades will finally make these cpu's competitive at the top tier in DAW/DSP applications?

I saw a review based on this that showed that at the higher core counts the 3000 series still fell well behind the Intel equivalent (in core numbers, not price/perf)

Im hoping this may no longer be the case and that a 12 or 16 core 4000 series may be seriously worth considering as an upgrade from my 8700 i7.

With the ipc, latency and clock improvements it looks like the 4000 series is going to wallop intels 10th gen.

Ryzen 3000 seems OK for DAW work from what I remember - easyrider uses it for things like that,so perhaps give them a PM?

However look at the Ryzen 3 3300X reviews - it has the lowest latency of all Zen2 parts,due to a single CCX,and is a good prediction of what the Ryzen 4000 might look like,with a single 8 core CCX.

Panos · 14 May 2020 at 19:02

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Ryzen 3000 seems OK for DAW work from what I remember - easyrider uses it for things like that,so perhaps give them a PM?

However look at the Ryzen 3 3300X reviews - it has the lowest latency of all Zen2 parts,due to a single CCX,and is a good prediction of what the Ryzen 4000 might look like,with a single 8 core CCX.

Yeah which is exactly what I said. If the upcoming 8core APU is single CCD/CCX it would outperform all Zen 2 CPUs in games if hits the same boost clocks (4500-4600) which apparently according to Igor it does!

That means an APU that could kill the whole Intel 10000 series lineup, given that the 10900K is slower on multithread applications than 3900X and 3950X and only argument is "gaming".

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 14 May 2020 at 19:10

Panos said:
Yeah which is exactly what I said. If the upcoming 8core APU is single CCD/CCX it would outperform all Zen 2 CPUs in games if hits the same boost clocks (4500-4600) which apparently according to Igor it does!

That means an APU that could kill the whole Intel 10000 series lineup, given that the 10900K is slower on multithread applications than 3900X and 3950X and only argument is "gaming".

Well,as I am going to be stuck on this motherboard for a while,I probably will be holding off until Zen4 I think. Will be on 5NM,can you imagine if the top consumer SKU is now 32 cores?? Probably will be at 12 cores for a mainstream CPU!

Jono8 · 14 May 2020 at 19:18

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Ryzen 3000 seems OK for DAW work from what I remember - easyrider uses it for things like that,so perhaps give them a PM?

However look at the Ryzen 3 3300X reviews - it has the lowest latency of all Zen2 parts,due to a single CCX,and is a good prediction of what the Ryzen 4000 might look like,with a single 8 core CCX.

Yeh the 3000 series isnt bad for DAW work at all, but there is little point in me upgrading to something with 12 or 16 cores, if the latency issues are still there for the large core parts

For example:

https://www.scanproaudio.info/2019/...00x-dawbench-tested-3-is-it-the-magic-number/

The 3900X with its new dual chiplet design was the only model to not come away with a completely clean sheet, although given we have an extra die section to deal with, this might not prove to be a huge surprise. I would expect it to mature in much the same fashion as the other chips below it in the range have done over future iterations and no doubt looking forward to them fine-tuning this new design further.

Perfect_Chaos · 14 May 2020 at 19:28

GregI said:
Apparently the leaker is well respected so can be trusted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/gjo2ad/rumor_zen3_will_exceed_expectations_just_like/

That would be about what AMD promised for Zen 3 anyway, so they need to deliver.

Gerard · 14 May 2020 at 20:15

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Well,as I am going to be stuck on this motherboard for a while,I probably will be holding off until Zen4 I think. Will be on 5NM,can you imagine if the top consumer SKU is now 32 cores?? Probably will be at 12 cores for a mainstream CPU!

If intel had their way we might just now be moving onto 6 cores, or more likely stuck on quad cores still.

Kelt · 14 May 2020 at 20:17

Gerard said:
If intel had their way we might just now be moving onto 6 cores, or more likely stuck on quad cores still.

It'd be Quad Cores, guaranteed.

Gerard · 14 May 2020 at 20:36

https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/i...t-at-least-you-can-insure-it-for-overclocking

Intel offering 1 time replacement overclocking insurance, think that tells a lot about how hot these things are gonna run.

FoxEye · 14 May 2020 at 21:26

Panos said:
Sept-Oct the earliest.

I don't usually do this, but right now I want to point out how full of crap you are.

In the Intel thread you called me an idiot, because you claimed a September release of Zen3, and I questioned where you'd got that from.

You then said, "It's on AMD's Twitter, learn to Google." You kept on about September being the official release date.

Now you're saying "September-October at the earliest."

So hold on... why have you rowed back on the "official" September release date? That I was an "idiot" for questioning?

Maybe because it's YOU who can't read, or Google? Apology, perhaps? Or just admit you're clueless.

Gerard · 14 May 2020 at 21:30

Perfect_Chaos said:
That would be about what AMD promised for Zen 3 anyway, so they need to deliver.

Did they actually promise that though or is that one of those leaks\rumours that somehow becomes fact somewhere along the line? So far all I've seen is rumours to that effect.

Jono8 · 14 May 2020 at 21:38

GregI said:
Apparently the leaker is well respected so can be trusted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/gjo2ad/rumor_zen3_will_exceed_expectations_just_like/

Exciting stuff.

This could well and truly pull intel's trousers down.

MassiveJim · 14 May 2020 at 21:52

GregI said:
Apparently the leaker is well respected so can be trusted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/gjo2ad/rumor_zen3_will_exceed_expectations_just_like/

After all the super-hype surrounding Ryzen 3xxx release, there is no way in hell I am getting sucked into believing something like that might be true.

Not that it matters to me as I bought X470 to go with my 3700x so its unlikely I'll get the chance to upgrade, despite it being an Asus board and according to Ninjacool's little chart, one of the few boards with 32MB BIOS ROM.

Perfect_Chaos · 14 May 2020 at 22:15

Gerard said:
Did they actually promise that though or is that one of those leaks\rumours that somehow becomes fact somewhere along the line? So far all I've seen is rumours to that effect.

This is from PCgamer but the link takes you to the source

Nothing is certain in processor performance until the home stretch, and that's still a long way off yet. Most of what we're expecting from Zen 3 rides on a statement from the VP and GM of the data centre and embedded solutions business group at AMD, Forrest Norrod. In an interview with The Street, Norrod said that performance would be "right in line with what you would expect from an entirely new architecture."

LtMatt · 14 May 2020 at 22:21

FoxEye said:
I don't usually do this, but right now I want to point out how full of crap you are.

In the Intel thread you called me an idiot, because you claimed a September release of Zen3, and I questioned where you'd got that from.

You then said, "It's on AMD's Twitter, learn to Google." You kept on about September being the official release date.

Now you're saying "September-October at the earliest."

So hold on... why have you rowed back on the "official" September release date? That I was an "idiot" for questioning?

Maybe because it's YOU who can't read, or Google? Apology, perhaps? Or just admit you're clueless.

Take a deep breath Fox.