People that atacked Intel for years are the first ones defending AMD for pulling the same **** intel did for years, worse than that is atacking AMD customers, 100% AMD fault for not being clear enough and not having B550 motherboards out last year, AMD will be the ones losing customers in the end with customers refusing to upgrade their motherboards and having a PR nightmare to deal with for the next months (just go to any AMD forum, plenty of Ryzen 2 users upset)
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AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.
- Thread starter AStaley
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Caporegime
I'll repeat what i said before.....
The mixed support AMD offered up until now was a mess, a mess they probably did not foresee.
If you buy a Zen+ CPU with a 300 series motherboard, or a Zen 2 CPU with a 300 or 400 series motherboard that CPU will not work in those motherboards, if you're not tech savvy you don't know why that is, you just think its broken, and then its sent back to you because its not broken and then you might learn that you need to write to AMD to request a loaner CPU so you can flash the BIOS and you don't know how to do that....
That is very messy and it leaves a bad test in your mouth which dictates your view of AMD.
AMD tried to persevere with it and make it work, but it doesn't work, adding in Zen 3 mixed support just makes all this worse given most of the old boards cannot support Zen 3 full stop.
So AMD have drawn a line through it....
The criticism here is not that they are crapping on their customers, nothing quite so cynical is the reason for this, its much more pragmatic than that. They should however have communicated this and done so a while ago, they should also stop using cheap jibes at Intel, just let the hardware do the talking, its good enough to do that.
The mixed support AMD offered up until now was a mess, a mess they probably did not foresee.
If you buy a Zen+ CPU with a 300 series motherboard, or a Zen 2 CPU with a 300 or 400 series motherboard that CPU will not work in those motherboards, if you're not tech savvy you don't know why that is, you just think its broken, and then its sent back to you because its not broken and then you might learn that you need to write to AMD to request a loaner CPU so you can flash the BIOS and you don't know how to do that....
That is very messy and it leaves a bad test in your mouth which dictates your view of AMD.
AMD tried to persevere with it and make it work, but it doesn't work, adding in Zen 3 mixed support just makes all this worse given most of the old boards cannot support Zen 3 full stop.
So AMD have drawn a line through it....
The criticism here is not that they are crapping on their customers, nothing quite so cynical is the reason for this, its much more pragmatic than that. They should however have communicated this and done so a while ago, they should also stop using cheap jibes at Intel, just let the hardware do the talking, its good enough to do that.
I'm unsure why you keep saying this considering their one and ONLY reason thus far has been bios size limitation.
Permabanned
Because the issues effects a wider customer base than those frequenting forum like this one. To most of us flashing bios and tinkering is not an issue, for Johnny average they wouldn’t know what a bios update is or what it means. So to stop the backlash from Johnny average which makes up the vast majority of sales they have had to do this.
They are never going to win or satisfy everyone’s personnel needs or situation so this is the way it is. They need to learn from this now though, so it’s not a pass, it’s a let’s wait and see how they react in the future. If they do it again the internet avengers will assembly and rain down all hell on those who dare oppose them
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Caporegime
Because the issues effects a wider customer base than those frequenting forum like this one. To most of us flashing bios and tinkering is not an issue, for Johnny average they wouldn’t know what a bios update is or what it means. So to stop the backlash from Johnny average which makes up the vast majority of sales they have had to do this.
They are never going to win or satisfy everyone’s personnel needs or situation so this is the way it is. They need to learn from this now though, so it’s not a pass, it’s a let’s wait and see how they react in the future. If they do it again the internet avengers will assembly and rain down all hell on those who dare oppose them
Right, unfortunately this is a lesson they do need to learn.
Most of us will give AMD a free pass for messy BIOS support because we understand the reasons for it, we are but a tiny fraction of their potential customers, the vast majority of which will blame AMD for their stuff not working as they expect. And if AMD are to be a long term thorn in Intel's side, something we all understand is a good thing for us.... then we have to allow AMD some room to gear their products for the highest common denominator.
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Soldato
Sorry but if AMD cut B450/470 support they deserve all the hate they will get. Same pin out, same socket, they can just allow AIBs to do a custom bios for those wanting to run zen 3. Does not have to be officially supported, same thing as b350/370 was not with zen 2.
Because the issues effects a wider customer base than those frequenting forum like this one. To most of us flashing bios and tinkering is not an issue, for Johnny average they wouldn’t know what a bios update is or what it means. So to stop the backlash from Johnny average which makes up the vast majority of sales they have had to do this.
They are never going to win or satisfy everyone’s personnel needs or situation so this is the way it is. They need to learn from this now though, so it’s not a pass, it’s a let’s wait and see how they react in the future. If they do it again the internet avengers will assembly and rain down all hell on those who dare oppose them
The elephant in the room being they already have this situation with people owning boards that aren't zen 2 compatible but have been made zen 2 compatible via an update, so you have people wanting to save a few quid buying a lower end board but finding out that their motherboard needs an update to run it. So there is no real reason why they can't continue to offer their loan service until they finally switch socket.
For retail sales they could have mobo manufacturers to put a sticker on the box showing compatibility, could also be adopted into online sales as part of the description. It's not an insurmountable issue to overcome with a bit of effort, amd caused this problem with their increasingly vague terminology about what they were supporting (and statements that were at best, misleading) so they can at least fix it.
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Good job that Zen 3 is not on 5nm with 12 or 16 core chiplets as that would be a very significant upgrade to miss out on.
As it is, missing an uplift of 17% or so whilst disappointing, it’s not a kick in the teeth like the above would be.
Until we see real world gains it’s not worth getting that riled about.
Maybe some recent B450 owners are now hoping that it will be a less significant gain so they don’t feel so left out!
As it is, missing an uplift of 17% or so whilst disappointing, it’s not a kick in the teeth like the above would be.
Until we see real world gains it’s not worth getting that riled about.
Maybe some recent B450 owners are now hoping that it will be a less significant gain so they don’t feel so left out!
Don't forget the people that will buy a B550 with a 3000 series APU only to find it won't work and unlike the 300/400 series which will work after a bios update it's just not going to work period.
Caporegime
I know, should AMD lock out support for those too? they have drawn the line with Zen 3.
Caporegime
Wait sorry i miss read that, 3000 APU's are existing Zen+ APU's, is that what you are talking about?
Caporegime
I think you've missed the point.
"Drawing the line" doesn't prevent people buying and trying stuff, because it's all AM4.
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On a more positive note, I'm looking forward to the Zen 2 desktop APUs.
Caporegime
I did
Yes Zen+ not being supported on B550 is a kick in the teeth and yet Zen+ doesn't work some X570 boards either... Ryzen 1000 and 2000 no longer work on my board because it only has room for Zen 2 OR Zen+ / Zen.
500 series boards were always Zen 2, Zen+ are 400 series boards.
Soldato
But then when performance is sub par the internet will be awash with people complaining how bad Zen 3 is and will create a big publicity mess where prospective customers wont know that the product is good because it is being drowned out by people complain about poor support/performance/drivers etc...
Permabanned
They may well fix it we don’t really know as zen3 is not even out yet. We know that this is not ideal and I can feel as smug as I want too seeing as I own a X570 board, so I’m less affected, but the long term we are all on same page and in the same boat, we want maximum value from everything we buy. I get that.
Like many have said most are understanding, they don’t like it but they can still get on with life. Some though are just using this as a means to vindicate what Intel have been doing in different guises for years, because, well we have give them a lot of stick for it. I get tgat but can we just start to move on from the circular posting.
We may see some unofficial support for those of us that can use it but we may not. Time will tell.
Soldato
I did
Yes Zen+ not being supported on B550 is a kick in the teeth and yet Zen+ doesn't work some X570 boards either... Ryzen 1000 and 2000 no longer work on my board because it only has room for Zen 2 OR Zen+ / Zen.
500 series boards were always Zen 2, Zen+ are 400 series boards.
X370 board flashed to support Zen2 doesn't support 1000
Second hand market is packed with complains even if motherboard sellers explicitly state that it won't work with 1000 series because is flashed for 3000.
It's not ideal. But thinking about it , upgrading to x670 will bring me the benefits of pcie4 that I want and assuming the x670 is backwards compatible with my 3700x it does afford me the opportunity to upgrade mb and then wait until a good price on the 4900x etc. Something I couldn't do on intel
Soldato
OK, so you're saying that since they already faced grumblings and bad feeling because Zen 2's compatibility with 300 series boards was patchy, AMD should wilfully and knowingly let the situation get 10 times worse with Zen 3? lol OK. AMD took a stance - however flimsy - to avoid repeating the same messy scenario, but they're still getting hate for it.
Make up your mind which one you want to wave your internet pitchfork at: AMD allow patchy Zen 3 support on a confusing subset of motherboards, or AMD draw a line and clean this up. Choose one.
They already have a hardware reason to draw the line in the near future, ddr5. And probably a new socket around that point as well.
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