I call dibs on his setup
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AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.
- Thread starter AStaley
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It's all a bit of clever marketing imo, AMD say 300/400 chipsets not supporting zen 3 so some will go out and buy new boards and others that have been sitting on 1st or 2nd gen ryzens waiting for zen 3 upgrades will go buy a zen 2 chip now and then just before zen 3 release AMD will give unofficial support so they don't lose out on zen 3 sales and gain some good publicity.
Same.
This isn't just a single CPU upgrade either. I have 4 AMD motherboards of various vintages bought through the AM4 socket. I planned to upgrade 3 of them with 4000-series CPU. I have also bought multiple RAM kits and GPU in that time including an RVII. This decision has ripples that go further than just CPU and motherboard.
If they switch me off to PCs as a hobby then not only is an AM5 upgrade questionable over the next 5 years they'll need to replace me with double-digit multiple single-purchase 'joe average' consumers to break even.
Grow up mate they are hardly going to worry about one person throwing a tantrum because he can’t upgrade to a cpu with a relatively minor performance increase. Just sell up and buy Intel and be done with it.
I am confused, when did AMD say that X370 and X470 would get new CPU support up to Zen 3? I know they said AMM4 would be supported (and is) but dont recall anything about individual chipsets. Based on their oppositions track record i would say they done pretty well supporting X370 and X470 as long as they have.
It was mainly an assumption based on them being am4 boards i think. AMD were never really clear on that just talking about the socket so people just assumed that if they had that socket on a ryzen supported board it would work for the foreseeable future.
I thought as much but was unsure if i had missed something
Why should I? Because you say so?
You're right AMD didn't specifically say X370 and X470 would get new CPU support up to Zen 3. AMD didn't specifically say X370 and X470 wouldn't get CPU support up to Zen 3 either. You're right, AMD didn't mention anything about individual chipsets. AMD didn't mention the chipset support being separate to socket support either. AMD not saying something does not mean they haven't communicated the opposite.
Despite all the other marketing on CPU upgrades, by sitting back and allowing people to buy B450 knowing Zen3 was the customers target CPU and then burying the bad news within an NDA shows they know they were pulling a fast one.
People made choices based on what AMD implied. As AMD, and motherboard manufacturers, implied it over and over - pretty much marketed it to death - the implication was so strong it was taken as a truism.
All the people complaining about implied assumptions not being reality are living in a dream World.
The entire point of marketing speak is to loosely suggest something without a written commitment. See video of Robert Hallock explaining PBO overclocking video for an example. AMD said B450 supported upcoming CPUs until 2020 or something similar BUT they never mentioned which specific CPUs. It's similar to consumers with all the awareness of a toddler thinking 'Orange juice drink' is orange juice or chocolate flavour =chocolate. We live in a capitalist society where companies and corporations look to rip us off or overcharge or deceive every chance they get. Selling cards with insufficient RAM, changing product specs, using cheap non reference components is all part of this business and has been since I got involved in the late 90s. Mobo manufacturers can't exist if they can only sell one motherboard every 5-10 years as people upgrade their CPUs without a new mobo. I'd be annoyed if I'd bought a load of B450 systems on the 'understanding' they could go through several generations of CPU upgrade but Zen3 support was never explicitly stated therefore it wasn't stated therefore end of argument.
The entire point of marketing speak is to loosely suggest something without a written commitment. See video of Robert Hallock explaining PBO overclocking video for an example. AMD said B450 supported upcoming CPUs until 2020 or something similar BUT they never mentioned which specific CPUs. It's similar to consumers with all the awareness of a toddler thinking 'Orange juice drink' is orange juice or chocolate flavour =chocolate. We live in a capitalist society where companies and corporations look to rip us off or overcharge or deceive every chance they get. Selling cards with insufficient RAM, changing product specs, using cheap non reference components is all part of this business and has been since I got involved in the late 90s. Mobo manufacturers can't exist if they can only sell one motherboard every 5-10 years as people upgrade their CPUs without a new mobo. I'd be annoyed if I'd bought a load of B450 systems on the 'understanding' they could go through several generations of CPU upgrade but Zen3 support was never explicitly stated therefore it wasn't stated therefore end of argument.
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I think to blindly assume chipset and socket support were one in teh same very niaave. We have seen Intel use the same socket as previous generations but not support those generations on new chipsets ao it baffles me why people would make this asssumption. As i said previously i thinkl we have been lucky to get the generational support we have so far.. All the people complaining or who dont like it have 2 choices really, shut up and take it or buy Intel, no one is forcing you to spend your money
....and anyone defending AMD or Intel, or any other company, for deceit because it's expected is perpetuating the deceit opportunity by admonishing it and tacitly embracing it.
Simply because deceit exists, and is expected, does not mean people have to like it or put up with it. The less people put it with it the less it will exist.
There are examples throughout the latter pages of this thread that the people complaining here are the ones who buy multiple CPUs and motherboards, not one every 5-10 years.
Then no CPU upgrade for you until you die?
Ha, in the current environment with a killer virus on the loose who knows!
My point really was that I took the message as "support for upcoming CPU's on the AM4 platform" meaning they will support every CPU out on the AM4 platform until they switch sockets.
I'm hardly "throwing a tantrum" as Doobedoo thinks I am. I was merely contemplating putting a 4000 series in my X370 motherboard to have a tinker with, but by the looks of it I wont be able to now. It's no biggie, in fact it's stopping me spending money, which is always a good thing in my book, it takes the temptation away!
I'm not condoning it and yes I accept there are people who will keep upgrading/changing CPUs. The recent advance from four cores being mainstream at a reasonable price to 6 and 8 cores being affordable means there's bound to be more activity than in the years of Intel's deliberate stagnation. Most people don't buy multiple CPUs on the same motherboard simply because the rest of the ecosystem moves forward too e.g. PCIe/USB/memory etc. This is why catering for a niche within a niche may well not be profitable but also not doing so won't alienate much of the fanboy base. AMD owners on B450 are unlikely to go Intel regardless how upset they are.
Agreed. Unfortunately having the CPU and motherboard manufacturers market the bejeezuz out of the socket with no mention of the chipset served to remove naivety out of the situation.
AMD continually stating 'we're not Intel' and digging them on their socket/chipset model is your answer. Until recently it was apples/oranges.
Hence why you're ok with the situation.
There's probably lots of options and as i've mentioned before the one i'm looking at is to go off an find another hobby to spend £££ on. At that point AMD will have successfully turned a prolific reward purchaser into a distress purchaser.
Until the situation is unrecoverable the only rational thing to do is complain. Hopefully AMD is reading this and finally understanding the demographic they are playing with.
Really, any one of us who recognises an injustice and says/does nothing about it is condoning it. I am guilty of it too in lots of circumstances as well. My halo is being well polished in this thread though.
I would suggest that AMD have been doing very, very well out of their CPU 'upgradeability' over the last 3 and a bit years (we haven't had Zen for 4 years like some people are claiming) and i'm not that sure it's a niche within a niche. I don't think there's any current way of AMD being able to measure just how much they have benefited from it but i certainly don't excuse them from making a poor decision because they haven't got all the info available.
The Zen chipset ecosystem has not moved on far enough to justify buying motherboards for their features. Should the memory change then i'd expect a new socket and AM4, with it's forwards CPU compatibility, will go out to pasture.
I usually make sarcastic jokes and not accusing anyone for tantrum.
An intelligent and adult way to interact.
Caporegime
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They told Schenker,a German system integrator,it would work through official channels,and it was listed on the official specification list for the laptop. They then proceeded to find out the same day as we did,this was not happening!!
Schenker,also makes the most powerful Ryzen based laptop out there,with a Ryzen 9 3950X. So one of the few companies willing to put effort into high-end Ryzen laptops.
This is the laptop:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFTMBTDGTx8
Also if people might ask why a B450 was used,it is much lower power consumption and needs no active cooling,so is ideal for a laptop.
So,goodness grief,they can't even communicate properly with system integators - that is truly worrying. We always wonder why AMD gets second rung in favour of Intel and Nvidia for prebuilt systems - it makes me wonder whether ODMs/OEMs keep getting mixed messages,and simply don't invest too much into the systems. Most of us want more effort put into Ryzen laptops!
The system integrator is now trying to see if their ODM will try and force the issue with AMD,but they don't seem very confident!
Also AMD just after the Zen2 launch pulled this stunt on Reddit:
That aged badly!!
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I think the issue is that had AMD released B550 on time or specifically marketed X570 as being the only chipset at the time which was going to get zen 3 support then a lot of people wouldn't have gone out and brought B450 instead of X570. The only reason back then to go X570 was if you needed pcie gen 4.0 which many didn't.
Also I think your underestimating the fact that many people buying into AM4 liked the idea of being able to drop in a better CPU in a few years time hence why the ryzen 5 2600 and 3600 are the most popular AM4 CPUs as opposed to people buying into Intel where the 9900k is the top seller.
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