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AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

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CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
. We always wonder why AMD gets second rung in favour of Intel and Nvidia for prebuilt systems - it makes me wonder whether ODMs/OEMs keep getting mixed messages,and simply don't invest too much into the systems. Most of us want more effort put into Ryzen laptops!
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Because Intel bribed and threatened oem's not to use their cpu's when AMD had cpu's that were good performers, then bulldozer got **** out of AMD and that further sunk laptops for the amd side. They're only now starting to get into it again since ryzen, and that doesn't just go for laptops, motherboards in general were substandard crap mostly for bulldozer and its brethren, and it took ryzen to get them back on board with AMD again.

So the reasons are, Intel's backhanded dealings, and amd crapping out a series of cpu's that were substandard compared to their Intel counterparts.
 
ljt said:
Ha, in the current environment with a killer virus on the loose who knows!

My point really was that I took the message as "support for upcoming CPU's on the AM4 platform" meaning they will support every CPU out on the AM4 platform until they switch sockets.

I'm hardly "throwing a tantrum" as Doobedoo thinks I am. I was merely contemplating putting a 4000 series in my X370 motherboard to have a tinker with, but by the looks of it I wont be able to now. It's no biggie, in fact it's stopping me spending money, which is always a good thing in my book, it takes the temptation away!
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Wasn’t accusing you of anything fella, in fact I don’t think I even replied to you. ;) :p Your being quite grown up about it like most others.
 
Gerard said:
Because Intel bribed and threatened oem's not to use their cpu's when AMD had cpu's that were good performers, then bulldozer got **** out of AMD and that further sunk laptops for the amd side. They're only now starting to get into it again since ryzen, and that doesn't just go for laptops, motherboards in general were substandard crap mostly for bulldozer and its brethren, and it took ryzen to get them back on board with AMD again.

So the reasons are, Intel's backhanded dealings, and amd crapping out a series of cpu's that were substandard compared to their Intel counterparts.
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I don't think it's only that though - if AMD can't even communicate roadmaps to a system integrator who is going out of it's it's way to make expensive Ryzen based laptops,then what about other system integrators. How is Intel bribing Schenker if they are making a Ryzen 9 3950X laptop? One which can take even a RTX2070,ie,making it the most powerful Ryzen laptop in the world. This is the kind of high end laptops AMD wants to help its image with. Even,Panos said he was sad at the mess created for Schenker.

Also regarding the whole Intel was forcing AMD to have worse laptops. They tried that as a marketing point with this article at Anandtech in their HQ in 2016:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/10000/who-controls-user-experience-amd-carrizo-thoroughly-tested

But they screwed up,as some of the laptops they said which were single channel,were not. People on the AT forums pointed out,production samples were dual channel,and AMD had sent out samples to NBC configured as such. It's seems senior marketing people were oblivious to the fact production laptops were different,and AT had to amend their article.

It worry's me a bit,that one of the biggest impediments to AMD getting it's products out there might be AMD itself. It's one thing bring vague to us lot,but not to your commercial partners! A single system integrator will probably buy more CPUs,than all of the most active users in the CPU forum. They are far more important than some DIY builders.
 
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Joxeon said:
Intel will come back and for AMD it's important to keep buyers happy for when that time comes.
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They are, their products are better :). AMD needs to make hay while the sun shines - they've had years of being in the doldrums & substandard products, CPU especially. R&D does not come cheap in technology.
Customers are as fickle as the companies are. I think many will move back to Intel in a flash if their future CPU's are even just a little better and quite a higher cost, regardless of what AMD does now to keep buyers happy.
 
BTW,forgot to add the Schenker laptop despite being B450 based,actually supports partial PCI-E 4.0,ie, for the M2 slot. It uses a custom motherboard,so don't know if its better quality than normal. The system is a custom model made by Clevo,who is a major ODM. Clevo is known to hack back support into older laptops,ie,their Z170 based socketed laptops,got CFL support.
 
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DarrenM343 said:
They are, their products are better :). AMD needs to make hay while the sun shines - they've had years of being in the doldrums & substandard products, CPU especially. R&D does not come cheap in technology.
Customers are as fickle as the companies are. I think many will move back to Intel in a flash if their future CPU's are even just a little better and quite a higher cost, regardless of what AMD does now to keep buyers happy.
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If only the customer service and communication was as good as their CPUs. 10 years with Intel so took a chance and made the jump to AMD yet this is the first time I've brought a motherboard that is EOL less than a year after it was released. People moan about geting 2 generations with Intel yet with AMD I've only got one.
 
Joxeon said:
If only the customer service and communication was as good as their CPUs. 10 years with Intel so took a chance and made the jump to AMD yet this is the first time I've brought a motherboard that is EOL less than a year after it was released. People moan about geting 2 generations with Intel yet with AMD I've only got one.
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We got 3, you're late....
 
AMD needs to invest some new found money into software development. Their software lets their very good hardware down. It’s fine when you’re the under dog with a small market share and an understanding fanbase but when you want to be a big player you can’t keep giving an inconsistent experience.
 
I started on AM4 with 2700X & X470. Upgraded to 3900X in December last year.

I got 2 gens of CPU out of it but i'm not crying about it, maybe i need to complain i didnt get 3 upgrade paths.

Oh wait, i was a lil late too :rolleyes:
 
LePhuronn said:
What Zen 2 backlash? Zen 2 support was never in jeopardy just because PCIe 4 support was erratic and ultimately got pulled. And arguably, the lengths AMD went to get Zen 2 onto 300 and 400 boards opened the can of worms that's directly caused this Zen 3 whingefest.
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Their own charts would say otherwise.
 
I really don't understand why people say all AM4 users got two or three generations of update. Almost all of the mainstream Zen2 sales since July 2019 where on B450. Many on this very forum suggested B450 motherboards in the build threads themselves since last year,and implied Zen3 would work in it.

People seem to have this weird idea 100% of B450 owners,bought motherboards in May 2018 when Zen+ was launched,so yes they got another generation of upgrade,but 100% of B450 sales were not in 2018. If anything AMD took a lot of its DIY sales share from Intel after Zen2 was launched,which was on top of the Intel CPU shortage woes in late 2018. You can see this with the increasing percentage and ranking of DIY sales from various online stores.

Everything from OEM systems,laptops and many DIY builds. With no B550,unless you were intending to buy a £180+ X570 last year,you were stuck with one generation of updates. This is exactly the same situation with anyone since last July who bought a CFL system,they were stuck with that generation of CPU. The people who did the best were X370 and B350 owners. They went from Zen to Zen2 with double the cores,and big improvements in ST performance.

AMD was on Reddit last July saying it was bad for companies to force motherboard changes. So for 12 months,they knew what was being said regarding Zen3,and even system integrators were not clear on what was happening.

Not just any people,the top people from AMD are active on Reddit and Twitter - this is unlike Intel and Nvidia who are much more hands off. I just question their silence since July 2019 on this.

I honestly hope,AMD learns from this,and clears up anything like this in the future,as quickly as possible. Better then to allow potential truths to snowball out of control.
 
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CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
I really don't understand why people say all AM4 users got two or three generations of update. Almost all of the mainstream Zen2 sales since July 2019 where on B450. Many on this very forum suggested B450 motherboards in the build threads themselves since last year,and implied Zen3 would work in it.

People seem to have this weird idea 100% of B450 owners,bought motherboards in May 2018 when Zen+ was launched,so yes they got another generation of upgrade,but 100% of B450 sales were not in 2018. If anything AMD took a lot of its DIY sales share from Intel after Zen2 was launched,which was on top of the Intel CPU shortage woes in late 2018. You can see this with the increasing percentage and ranking of DIY sales from various online stores.

Everything from OEM systems,laptops and many DIY builds. With no B550,unless you were intending to buy a £180+ X570 last year,you were stuck with one generation of updates. This is exactly the same situation with anyone since last July who bought a CFL system,they were stuck with that generation of CPU. The people who did the best were X370 and B350 owners. They went from Zen to Zen2 with double the cores,and big improvements in ST performance.

AMD was on Reddit last July saying it was bad for companies to force motherboard changes. So for 12 months,they knew what was being said regarding Zen3,and even system integrators were not clear on what was happening.

Not just any people,the top people from AMD are active on Reddit and Twitter - this is unlike Intel and Nvidia who are much more hands off. I just question their silence since July 2019 on this.

I honestly hope,AMD learns from this,and clears up anything like this in the future,as quickly as possible. Better then to allow potential truths to snowball out of control.
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We got 3 generations of CPU's on one chipset, if you only bough into Ryzen at B450 and are complaining you only got +1 generation or 0 depending on which CPU you bought that's not on AMD.

And AMD have not renamed the same CPU and changed the pin layout to force a socket change, trying to conflate what AMD has done with what Intel do is disingenuous.
 
humbug said:
We got 3 generations of CPU's on one chipset, if you only bough into Ryzen at B450 and are complaining you only got +1 generation or 0 depending on which CPU you bought that's not on AMD.

And AMD have not renamed the same CPU and changed the pin layout to force a socket change, trying to conflate what AMD has done with what Intel do is disingenuous.
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Excusing AMD by comparing to the low-ball tactics of Intel is disingenuous.
 
Intel screwing customers over and now Amd its not a good time to be buying a CPU. I mean who else is selling CPU’s these days.

So anyway with so many repetitive comments where do we go from here? Has anyone actually directed this directly at Amd or the other naughty pc component overlords because this is getting boring now. Someone please make a separate thread or something so as to not fill this one up with page after page of essentially the same words arranged ever so slightly differently.
 
Doobedoo said:
Intel screwing customers over and now Amd its not a good time to be buying a CPU. I mean who else is selling CPU’s these days.

So anyway with so many repetitive comments where do we go from here? Has anyone actually directed this directly at Amd or the other naughty pc component overlords because this is getting boring now. Someone please make a separate thread or something so as to not fill this one up with page after page of essentially the same words arranged ever so slightly differently.
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Yep, you can't defend the indefensible from either side of any argument. The only thing you can do in this case is move on and learn that multi billion £ company's will tell you lies.
 
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