AMD Zen 3 (Ryzen 4000) already in the works

Alan1969 · 27 Sep 2019 at 15:39

I see that the 3950X is on AMD's website as having a max boost clock of 4.7 ghz. Perhaps they ought to drop this a little before it launches, so that they have a comfortable margin that more people can achieve it. But then to me this will be below the maximum if someone gets more than 4.70 ghz (under normal conditions i.e not liquid nitrogen).

Destination · 27 Sep 2019 at 15:46

4K8KW10 said:
The hate is actually in you. At least, try to understand what I'm saying.
AMD can't hit the clocks on the quantities of chiplets they initially wanted to. Hence, you have quite limited supply.

This is an interesting point, and I do ponder if they rumoured 3900 at 65w, is somehow related to this, the slower clocking chiplets will be bundled and released an an entirely new wave of processor which do meet the mark, at a lower level.
Would make perfect sense, to extract as much from the dies as possible.

humbug · 27 Sep 2019 at 16:03

My 3600 never does more than 4.125Ghz in any application, no matter what, its behaving like its hard locked to that, no i'm not happy about it, it says 4.2Ghz on the box and i do expect it to do that in at least some lightly threaded applications.

Psycho Sonny · 27 Sep 2019 at 16:54

they should set a safe limit for boost limit and then if yours does more then it's free performance.

e.g. the 3600 is 4.2 ghz. they should have just stated it being 4 GHz guaranteed or something like that and maximum boost under optimal conditions being 4.2 GHz.

those that exceed won the lottery

humbug said:
My 3600 never does more than 4.125Ghz in any application, no matter what, its behaving like its hard locked to that, no i'm not happy about it, it says 4.2Ghz on the box and i do expect it to do that in at least some lightly threaded applications.

wrong IMO.

windows doesn't work like that. just because you have 1 app using 1 thread. what about the other 200 apps running in the background? they will be using the other cores.

you need to strip down windows. turn off firewall, virus protection, etc. get rid of all bloatware then re-test.

needs to be a brand new install of windows too to make sure.

i can hit 4.4 ghz on my 3600X but I don't have any crap installed and all of their bundled crap has either been uninstalled or turned off and disabled.

even stuff which monitors what speed you are running is enough to push it to using more cores.

also do you have the latest BIOS with ABBA update? I just checked and no it doesn't " Update AMD AGESA Combo-AM4 1.0.0.3 ABB" it won't run at it's best speed until it gets ABBA

4K8KW10 · 27 Sep 2019 at 17:05

Psycho Sonny said:
windows doesn't work like that. just because you have 1 app using 1 thread. what about the other 200 apps running in the background? they will be using the other cores.

Windows often likes to park many of the cores and run all the applications on a single or two logical processors.

Psycho Sonny · 27 Sep 2019 at 17:11

4K8KW10 said:
Windows often likes to park many of the cores and run all the applications on a single or two logical processors.

that is fine if you only have a few things running. but it comes so bloated and with so many additional things users install that work in the background. cpu's even when idling are usually using up to 5-10% to just run all the background processes. more if you have VPN, virus protection, etc too.

marms · 27 Sep 2019 at 17:37

Psycho Sonny said:
they should set a safe limit for boost limit and then if yours does more then it's free performance.

e.g. the 3600 is 4.2 ghz. they should have just stated it being 4 GHz guaranteed or something like that and maximum boost under optimal conditions being 4.2 GHz.

AMD state the clock speed of the 3600 is 3.6Ghz and the boost speed is up to 4.2Ghz under optimal conditions, retailers are listing it as
AMD RYZEN 5 3600 SIX CORE 4.2GHZ (SOCKET AM4) PROCESSOR - RETAIL
Which is making people feel ripped off when they don't get the maximum boost they expected.

Orange Nexus · 27 Sep 2019 at 17:45

marms said:
AMD state the clock speed of the 3600 is 3.6Ghz and the boost speed is up to 4.2Ghz under optimal conditions, retailers are listing it as
AMD RYZEN 5 3600 SIX CORE 4.2GHZ (SOCKET AM4) PROCESSOR - RETAIL
Which is making people feel ripped off when they don't get the maximum boost they expected.

I checked two other popular retailers and they state the base and boost clocks.

pete910 · 30 Sep 2019 at 21:51

humbug said:
My 3600 never does more than 4.125Ghz in any application, no matter what, its behaving like its hard locked to that, no i'm not happy about it, it says 4.2Ghz on the box and i do expect it to do that in at least some lightly threaded applications.

Fair comment, though running a B350 board with it my be hindering it somewhat. Seem to think 3xx series of boards don't have PBO of any sort.

jigger · 30 Sep 2019 at 21:58

Destination said:
This is an interesting point, and I do ponder if they rumoured 3900 at 65w, is somehow related to this, the slower clocking chiplets will be bundled and released an an entirely new wave of processor which do meet the mark, at a lower level.
Would make perfect sense, to extract as much from the dies as possible.

A 65 watt Ryzen 12 core would make a SFF powerhouse and maybe open a couple of laptop markets.

zx128k · 30 Sep 2019 at 22:38

Orange Nexus said:
I checked two other popular retailers and they state the base and boost clocks.

So do overclockers, take the 3600x for example:

Specification:
- Core Count (Cores/Threads): 6/12
- Base Clock (All Core): 3.80GHz
- Boost Clock (Single Core): 4.40GHz
- L2 Cache: 3MB
- L3 Cache: 32MB
- Cooler: Wraith Spire
- TDP: 95W
- Recommended Memory speed: 3200-3600MHz DDR4 (Dual Channel)
- OcUK Recommends 8 Pack 3200MHz & 3600MHz 16G kits with Ryzen as tested by 8 Pack in both X470 and X570 platforms showing excellent results with tight CAS timings, all 8 Pack memory is guaranteed screened Samsung B-Die. OcUK Product codes are MY-08L-TG & MY-08Q-TG !!!

FoxEye · 3 Oct 2019 at 20:21

Psycho Sonny said:
that is fine if you only have a few things running. but it comes so bloated and with so many additional things users install that work in the background. cpu's even when idling are usually using up to 5-10% to just run all the background processes. more if you have VPN, virus protection, etc too.

So what you're saying then is that 4.2 is not achievable for many in real world conditions.

So it's essentially unachievable by many. Ie, somebody who buys an off-the-shelf PC might never seen that 4.2 clock as stated on the packaging.

That doesn't play well with me no matter how you spin it.

Looks like in their attempt to kill overclocking (and deny people "free" performance), they've gone too far the other way; now people can't even reach the advertised "up to" speeeds.

Yes I konw "up to" is supposed to be a get-out clause. But it's sleazy to behave this way. AMD do not endear themselves to us by taking notes from Intel's playbook.

4K8KW10 · 5 Oct 2019 at 10:18

Zen 3 without SMT4 support.

NinjaCool · 5 Oct 2019 at 11:15

As I thought since SMT4 on Zen 3 just seems way to early to implement. It's quite possible with Zen 4 since they have to do some design changes anyway like a new socket, DDR5 and PCIe 5 support.

Panos · 5 Oct 2019 at 11:17

NinjaCool said:
As I thought since SMT4 on Zen 3 just seems way to early to implement. It's quite possible with Zen 4 since they have to do some design changes anyway like a new socket, DDR5 and PCIe 5 support.

Yeah the biggest change is that now each CCD is a single 8 core CCX with over 32MB L3 shared between 8 cores. Atm each CCX has it's own 16MB L3.
Also there are changes in the I/O

However these changes keep Zen 3 compatible on AM4/SP3. That cannot be said for Zen4 which needs new sockets.

4K8KW10 · 5 Oct 2019 at 11:20

NinjaCool said:
As I thought since SMT4 on Zen 3 just seems way to early to implement. It's quite possible with Zen 4 since they have to do some design changes anyway like a new socket, DDR5 and PCIe 5 support.

Some other companies have SMT8..... AMD and intel will never grow to that level, though.....

theforce · 7 Oct 2019 at 03:08

Hoping that Zen3 delivers a nice performance increase over Zen2. Seems like Zen3 will be launching Q3 2020 instead of Q2. Hope my Ivy Bridge system hangs in there until then.

TrM · 7 Oct 2019 at 06:42

theforce said:
Hoping that Zen3 delivers a nice performance increase over Zen2. Seems like Zen3 will be launching Q3 2020 instead of Q2. Hope my Ivy Bridge system hangs in there until then.

I doubt 4000 series will be much of a upgrade over the current 3000 though just a small refinement like the zen+ was over 1st generation. Not really a bad thing really as 3000 series and exp the 3900x are amazing chips tbh

Panos · 7 Oct 2019 at 08:44

theforce said:
Hoping that Zen3 delivers a nice performance increase over Zen2. Seems like Zen3 will be launching Q3 2020 instead of Q2. Hope my Ivy Bridge system hangs in there until then.

So you plan to upgrade from IB, the last year of AM4 & DDR4 support.

LePhuronn · 7 Oct 2019 at 09:48

TrM said:
I doubt 4000 series will be much of a upgrade over the current 3000 though just a small refinement like the zen+ was over 1st generation. Not really a bad thing really as 3000 series and exp the 3900x are amazing chips tbh

Zen 3 is a new design, it's not a refinement like Zen+ was.