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*** AMD "Zen 4" thread (inc AM5/APU discussion) ***
AMD sell CPUs not coolers and besides reviewers will test these with top 360 AIOs.
Now if AMD sold this with a cooler and it throttled then it would be an issue but it'll almost certainly be sold without a box cooler so it's not AMDs fault if users don't spec a powerful enough cooler to prevent throttling.
So a 7600x works out at £285 with the Vat cut, right? Seems like a tasty upgrade from a 3600. It's funny if Vat drops the price of ram, am5 and zen 4 below last gen. Seems like a tasty upgrade from a 3600.
Am5 may get support till 2025, but how do I know which b650 mobos are likely to get support? Didn't zen 3 skip b250? Is x670 or small form factor more likely to get support till the end of am5?
Am5 may get support till 2025, but how do I know which b650 mobos are likely to get support? Didn't zen 3 skip b250? Is x670 or small form factor more likely to get support till the end of am5?
@Joxeon - You'll be saying that, even when reviews show otherwise. None of them will meet the standards you set.
You don't need water cooling for CPUs (especially at the mid/low end), people have just got used to this because of the 90 Celsius plus temps of Intel's 12th gen 12900k, even at stock turbo settings (no doubt similar for 13th gen 13900K because it's clocked higher). 11th gen 11900K did this too, if clocked at 5ghz on all cores (apparently the approx. limit for these CPUs).
Air coolers are better than they were and cheaper now.
You don't need water cooling for CPUs (especially at the mid/low end), people have just got used to this because of the 90 Celsius plus temps of Intel's 12th gen 12900k, even at stock turbo settings (no doubt similar for 13th gen 13900K because it's clocked higher). 11th gen 11900K did this too, if clocked at 5ghz on all cores (apparently the approx. limit for these CPUs).
Air coolers are better than they were and cheaper now.
Not sure if it will happen, even a 5% VAT cut amounts to billions of pounds in tax revenue, so is apparently considered to be a 'nuclear option' by the powers that be.
Edit - gov. revenue from VAT was £143 billion for the 2021-2022 period.
Associate
I checked about temps on the 5800X, the internet kicked off about temps being hot then and AMD's response was haha CPU go meme 
AMD CPUs reach their thermal potential. Niiice and toasty. Get ready for more of the same soon.
Now record a video and remove the cooler - does it explode and leave a hole in the table?
AMD CPUs reach their thermal potential. Niiice and toasty. Get ready for more of the same soon.Now record a video and remove the cooler - does it explode and leave a hole in the table?
Permabanned
They will work fine with stock cooler.
I am really curious about people getting so excited about the leaked temperatures of teh 7000 series. It shouldbt need to be said but how reliable is this persons testing methodology (i seen r23 scores from 29k to 38k for 7950x so seems not), what bios are they running, release bios quite possibly will not even ship with the boards, how many different motherboards was it tested on, Asus always use to pump crazy voltages on Auto, are the drivers up to date, are teh temp monitoring progrmas up to date, do they know how to mount a cooler correctly, are they living in a location with 40 degree+ ambient temp. So many unknown variables. Seems like only yesterday 12900k were being reported at hitting 105 degrees, same people moaning now where fine with it then for some strange reason....
Here's to hoping that we will see some good X670 and B650 motherboard + Zen 4 bundle deals on launch /early October, so we can get a good price for an 8 core CPU!
Cheap, high frequency 8 core CPUs still not a reality on launch. The 12700f was >£300 inc. VAT on launch (still is) - no, I'm not counting low power cores. Adding more E-cores for the 13th gen will no doubt push prices up for us poor gamers!
Also, no sign of the locked 13th gen CPUs coming this year (usual strategy to keep prices high on unlocked CPUs). Intel will probably still charge ~$300 for the 6 core 13600K.
$50 price cut for the 6 and 8 core models is what AMD's Zen 4 needs to bring the pain to Intel.
AMD claims that supply will be decent for Zen 4, but apparently not so high that they can afford a decent price cut on launch. TSMC 5nm EUV fab process chips are probably quite expensive to produce though, tbf.
Cheap, high frequency 8 core CPUs still not a reality on launch. The 12700f was >£300 inc. VAT on launch (still is) - no, I'm not counting low power cores. Adding more E-cores for the 13th gen will no doubt push prices up for us poor gamers!
Also, no sign of the locked 13th gen CPUs coming this year (usual strategy to keep prices high on unlocked CPUs). Intel will probably still charge ~$300 for the 6 core 13600K.
$50 price cut for the 6 and 8 core models is what AMD's Zen 4 needs to bring the pain to Intel.
AMD claims that supply will be decent for Zen 4, but apparently not so high that they can afford a decent price cut on launch. TSMC 5nm EUV fab process chips are probably quite expensive to produce though, tbf.
Soldato
I'm not quite sure what people were expecting, TSMC have up'd the price of it's silicon wafers and everything is more expensive to produce so maintaining margins is difficult. You say the price isn't decent but consider that a Ryzen 7600X is going to cost $300 and in games it's giving you the equivalent or better gaming performance then the Intel 12900K which is twice the price.
This does sound good if proven by testing.
Soldato
This my thought. We had 4 core for like 8 generations with no change and 2-5% IPC each gen at slightly rising costs.
We then got a pretty solid core jump at a decent price. Just because we haven't seen 6 core dropped at lower end and starting at 8 core yet people are getting salty after 4 generations with 6 core being minimum rather than maximum.
If you consider a 4 core 4790k was $339 ($405 adjusted for inflation) and you compare that to a 12600k 6 core that is $289 / 7600x $299 whilst manufacture costs and global economics have significantly increased in that time we are still so significantly better off than the previous 8yrs CPU performance to price wise and seeing significant improvement.
Yes it be great to have 8, 12, 16 and 24 as the range instead but at moment there isn't a significant need in the general market for that in my opinion.
Come Zen 6 possibly we will see those core counts as the general range and something lower end skew thar remain at 6 core. But I wouldn't expect the price to come down for Zen 5 or MeteorLake or change in core count.
We then got a pretty solid core jump at a decent price. Just because we haven't seen 6 core dropped at lower end and starting at 8 core yet people are getting salty after 4 generations with 6 core being minimum rather than maximum.
If you consider a 4 core 4790k was $339 ($405 adjusted for inflation) and you compare that to a 12600k 6 core that is $289 / 7600x $299 whilst manufacture costs and global economics have significantly increased in that time we are still so significantly better off than the previous 8yrs CPU performance to price wise and seeing significant improvement.
Yes it be great to have 8, 12, 16 and 24 as the range instead but at moment there isn't a significant need in the general market for that in my opinion.
Come Zen 6 possibly we will see those core counts as the general range and something lower end skew thar remain at 6 core. But I wouldn't expect the price to come down for Zen 5 or MeteorLake or change in core count.
Is it better gaming performance than a 5800X3D though which can be dropped into a 50 quid board and some cheap 50 quid DDR4, to me it looks like an expensive side grade at best for anyone whose looking for a gaming only set up while if you game and do some productivity a 12600k should still offer a better mix of both for a lot less cash while the 13600k should pull ahead even more.
Which makes perfect sense if money is an issue and you are on a tight budget. If you have more to spend though you may as well go 7600X and a B650 board with some DDR5 and have guaranteed drop in upgrades for a few years yet.
On a side note if Zen 3 and Zen 4 is such a crappy platform and you clearly do not like it why keep chipping away in AMD threads???
If you have more money to spend then wait for the Zen 4 Vcache to drop, the 7600X makes little sense in any scenario at its current price point.
@Joxeon - The 8 core Vcache Zen 4 CPU will cost at least £500. Simply not affordable for many, some would prefer to save some of that cash for a Zen 5 upgrade later. It's still pretty new technology, so AMD will produce less vcache CPUs, overall.
Vcache's main benefit, will be in offering higher minimum framerates, above 60 FPS (modern CPUs can already handle ~60fps minimums).
Vcache's main benefit, will be in offering higher minimum framerates, above 60 FPS (modern CPUs can already handle ~60fps minimums).
I didn't realise Vcache pricing has been announced already... for all we know AMD could release a full range of SKUs with Vcache for a not to dissimilar price than the current line up.