The anti AMD crowd might see it that way, but they have to draw focusing on single game benchmarks likely limited by some graphics subsystem bottleneck. Overall Zen 5 is a significant improvement over Zen 4. Flagship Zen4 to 5 EPYC for example, is twice the performance in most cases. Similar situation for TR.
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AMD Zen 6 rumours
- Thread starter Grim5
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The anti AMD crowd might see it that way, but they have to draw focusing on single game benchmarks likely limited by some graphics subsystem bottleneck. Overall Zen 5 is a significant improvement over Zen 4. Flagship Zen4 to 5 EPYC for example, is twice the performance in most cases. Similar situation for TR.
I wonder how many people bothered to build an Arrow Lake PC?
It just seems like Intel has been focusing on mobile / notebook CPU development for a long time.
And hybrid smaller and larger core designs, which while often quite efficient, haven’t blown people away with their performance.
And still, a poor upgrade path for customers, which makes Arrow Lake a pretty tough sell.
And for the same reason, Arrow Lake refresh seems like it could struggle. And no doubt, lots of people who only buy Intel CPUs will wait for the 16th gen / Nova Lake on a new platform.
Some new chips are reportedly on the way:
www.techpowerup.com
If these chips could be massively overclocked, perhaps Intel might not struggle on desktop performance, so much. It could be a good short term worksaround. They need a chip that can at least turbo to 6Ghz, again.
Unfortunately, they haven’t been able to best the 14900KS yet:
www.intel.com
It just seems like Intel has been focusing on mobile / notebook CPU development for a long time.
And hybrid smaller and larger core designs, which while often quite efficient, haven’t blown people away with their performance.
And still, a poor upgrade path for customers, which makes Arrow Lake a pretty tough sell.
And for the same reason, Arrow Lake refresh seems like it could struggle. And no doubt, lots of people who only buy Intel CPUs will wait for the 16th gen / Nova Lake on a new platform.
Some new chips are reportedly on the way:
Intel Core Ultra 7 270K Plus Leak Reveals First Arrow Lake Refresh SKU
Intel Arrow Lake refresh is getting closer with new details starting to appear, and this time is about a CPU reportedly named Core Ultra 7 270K Plus. According to a recent Geekbench 6 entry, the processor features 8 P-cores and 16 E-cores, which aligns it more closely with the current Core Ultra...
If these chips could be massively overclocked, perhaps Intel might not struggle on desktop performance, so much. It could be a good short term worksaround. They need a chip that can at least turbo to 6Ghz, again.
Unfortunately, they haven’t been able to best the 14900KS yet:
Intel® Core™ i9 processor 14900KS (36M Cache, up to 6.20 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel
Intel® Core™ i9 processor 14900KS (36M Cache, up to 6.20 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.
www.intel.com
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I wonder how many people bothered to build an Arrow Lake PC?
It just seems like Intel has been focusing on mobile / notebook CPU development for a long time.
And hybrid smaller and larger core designs, which while often quite efficient, haven’t blown people away with their performance.
And still, a poor upgrade path for customers, which makes Arrow Lake a pretty tough sell.
And for the same reason, Arrow Lake refresh seems like it could struggle.
Some new chips are reportedly on the way:
Intel Core Ultra 7 270K Plus Leak Reveals First Arrow Lake Refresh SKU
Intel Arrow Lake refresh is getting closer with new details starting to appear, and this time is about a CPU reportedly named Core Ultra 7 270K Plus. According to a recent Geekbench 6 entry, the processor features 8 P-cores and 16 E-cores, which aligns it more closely with the current Core Ultra...
If these chips could be massively overclocked, perhaps Intel might not struggle on desktop performance, so much. It could be a good short term worksaround. They nned a chip that can at least turbo to 6Ghz, again.
Unfortunately, they haven’t been able to best the 14900KS yet:
Intel® Core™ i9 processor 14900KS (36M Cache, up to 6.20 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel
Intel® Core™ i9 processor 14900KS (36M Cache, up to 6.20 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.
The 285K boosts to 5.7Ghz, an extra 300Mhz is +5%, its a marginal difference, at 6Ghz it would still only match a Ryzen 9700X in gaming, a £270 CPU that only boosts to 5.5Ghz.
Arrow Lake's problems are not its clock speeds.
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I agree, but they could at least mitigate some of the performance issues with very high clockspeeds at the high end.
The fact that they managed 6Ghz in the past, but current designs aren’t capable simply looks bad for Intel.
It doesn’t leave them with many options, other than further price cuts for Arrow Lake.
The fact that they managed 6Ghz in the past, but current designs aren’t capable simply looks bad for Intel.
It doesn’t leave them with many options, other than further price cuts for Arrow Lake.
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285K often struggles to beat or can't convincingly pull away from the £200 cheaper 14700K in a lot of cases...
I actually struggle to justify a lot of other CPUs on a personal level - the 14900K uses a fair bit more power and runs hotter, costs a lot more and rarely pulls that far ahead of the 14700K and the other faster CPUs are often not that much faster compared to the price difference (outside of specific types of usage).
Would be nice if something came along which really shook up the CPU market.
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Well, we’ve had the 7800X3D and it’s successor for high framerates. But nothing major, in terms of overall performance gains.
In terms of major breakthroughs, that usually would depend on improving transistor density, clock speed and power efficiency. All things that are due to improve with 2nm class CPUs.
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That would put Intel back to 350watt+ parts with questionable reliability and next to impossible to cool. Why would Intel do that when their reputation is already in tatters? Intel tried this strategy with the 13/14 gen and it just pushed OEMs to AMD.
Intel need a new core architecture focused for the desktop parts, but don’t seem to be willing or able to execute and why should they bother?
Nothing at all wrong with Arrow Lake, except price, that is the only thing that irk's me about them, tho they are not as bad as they were when launched, i think Intel was completely deluded.
They sorted the power consumption out, still higher than AMD even while using TSMC N3 with Zen 5 being on TSMC N4, but that aside they don't use a stupid amount of power anymore, progress.
Look if you're pulling 150 watts (in a game) and you being Intel allow it to run at up to 105c and you as a consumer are running it in a case that isn't ideal for air flow and you're not cooling it with a 360mm AIO... like a real world scenario out side of a lab its going to burnup inside of a year. If you're an old school overclocker like i am your silicon empathy tells you its slowly being cooked alive and to back off.
I have never had a CPU die on me and my current one is trucking along like its still new after 5 years of torturous use. You think Shader caching in UE is a high load you haven't seen anything, baking lighting in UE is 2X that and can last the day and overnight. That has never bothered it, i wake in the morning to see its simply completed the task.
If the 265K was a good price i would buy it, unfortunately its more expensive than the 9700X and slower and uses more power in gaming, oh its better at MT productivity, yes but what i do is a hobby, its not time sensitive and if it was i would be running a Threadripper, this is the problem with thinking that productivity matters on a midrange DIY PC, it doesn't, not one bit, this is why AMD own 90% of that market while Intel own prebuilds and yet can't turn a profit because they are so heavily discounted for SI's.
Every high performance micro PC and gaming box is AMD powered because power and performance matters in those machines, it doesn't in an SI prebuild.
This thing is like a PS5 in hardware performance and its 6" cubed. Oh another AMD gaming box...
well that's why.
They sorted the power consumption out, still higher than AMD even while using TSMC N3 with Zen 5 being on TSMC N4, but that aside they don't use a stupid amount of power anymore, progress.
Look if you're pulling 150 watts (in a game) and you being Intel allow it to run at up to 105c and you as a consumer are running it in a case that isn't ideal for air flow and you're not cooling it with a 360mm AIO... like a real world scenario out side of a lab its going to burnup inside of a year. If you're an old school overclocker like i am your silicon empathy tells you its slowly being cooked alive and to back off.
I have never had a CPU die on me and my current one is trucking along like its still new after 5 years of torturous use. You think Shader caching in UE is a high load you haven't seen anything, baking lighting in UE is 2X that and can last the day and overnight. That has never bothered it, i wake in the morning to see its simply completed the task.
If the 265K was a good price i would buy it, unfortunately its more expensive than the 9700X and slower and uses more power in gaming, oh its better at MT productivity, yes but what i do is a hobby, its not time sensitive and if it was i would be running a Threadripper, this is the problem with thinking that productivity matters on a midrange DIY PC, it doesn't, not one bit, this is why AMD own 90% of that market while Intel own prebuilds and yet can't turn a profit because they are so heavily discounted for SI's.
Every high performance micro PC and gaming box is AMD powered because power and performance matters in those machines, it doesn't in an SI prebuild.
This thing is like a PS5 in hardware performance and its 6" cubed. Oh another AMD gaming box...
well that's why.
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I can have a look at that claim, as I have a 9700X / 9800X3D on the shelf
285K, even a golden sample won't hit 6Ghz, 5.8 ish where they top out.
Mine motors along quite nicely, but then again, I game at 4K
I can pop a 14900KS up against it in BF6, as I think I still have the benchmark script.
It's a different process node compared to Raptor Lake, which does a lot of the heavy lifting. Core design vs Process node is two different things, as the only way to rule that out would be putting a Rapor Lake Core and Cove design on a TSMC process node.
Oddly, as Humbug says above, Arrow Lakes shortfalls are not clock speed related; they are down to the Cache / IO. While not a perfect answer, you can overcome some of those by increasing the D2D / NGU / Cache / RAM, as I don't know why out of the box they are stupidly low (26), and there is also a bug (or safeguard) where it sets the tWRWR_sg (89+) incorrectly, which causes the writes to be much slower than they should be.
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Sorry Humbug, not really a reply to what you posted, but one thing I like about the steam machine is that it would play all my indie games no issue, then be able to stream from my office pc for the bigger games. I have a gigabit lan and having seen how well remote play works over WiFi on my steam deck from both my pc and ps5 pro I imagine this will be even better.Nothing at all wrong with Arrow Lake, except price, that is the only thing that irk's me about them, tho they are not as bad as they were when launched, i think Intel was completely deluded.
They sorted the power consumption out, still higher than AMD even while using TSMC N3 with Zen 5 being on TSMC N4, but that aside they don't use a stupid amount of power anymore, progress.
Look if you're pulling 150 watts (in a game) and you being Intel allow it to run at up to 105c and you as a consumer are running it in a case that isn't ideal for air flow and you're not cooling it with a 360mm AIO... like a real world scenario out side of a lab its going to burnup inside of a year. If you're an old school overclocker like i am your silicon empathy tells you its slowly being cooked alive and to back off.
I have never had a CPU die on me and my current one is trucking along like its still new after 5 years of torturous use. You think Shader caching in UE is a high load you haven't seen anything, baking lighting in UE is 2X that and can last the day and overnight. That has never bothered it, i wake in the morning to see its simply completed the task.
If the 265K was a good price i would buy it, unfortunately its more expensive than the 9700X and slower and uses more power in gaming, oh its better at MT productivity, yes but what i do is a hobby, its not time sensitive and if it was i would be running a Threadripper, this is the problem with thinking that productivity matters on a midrange DIY PC, it doesn't, not one bit, this is why AMD own 90% of that market while Intel own prebuilds and yet can't turn a profit because they are so heavily discounted for SI's.
Every high performance micro PC and gaming box is AMD powered because power and performance matters in those machines, it doesn't in an SI prebuild.
This thing is like a PS5 in hardware performance and its 6" cubed. Oh another AMD gaming box...
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Not sure if these specs are real for Arrow Lake refresh, but they look like quite a marginal improvement, still way off 6Ghz:
videocardz.com
I imagine they could have used an improved fab. process, but decided it wasn’t worth it.
Intel Core Ultra 290K, 270K and 250K Plus spec leak: "Arrow Lake Refresh" with higher clocks, more cores and faster memory support - VideoCardz.com
Intel Core Ultra 9 290K Plus "Arrow Lake Refresh" CPU to feature 5.8 GHz TVB boost The last breath for the LGA-1851 socket. Intel is now set to
videocardz.com
I imagine they could have used an improved fab. process, but decided it wasn’t worth it.
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Not sure if these specs are real for Arrow Lake refresh, but they look like quite a marginal improvement, still way off 6Ghz:
Intel Core Ultra 290K, 270K and 250K Plus spec leak: "Arrow Lake Refresh" with higher clocks, more cores and faster memory support - VideoCardz.com
Intel Core Ultra 9 290K Plus "Arrow Lake Refresh" CPU to feature 5.8 GHz TVB boost The last breath for the LGA-1851 socket. Intel is now set to
I imagine they could have used an improved fab. process, but decided it wasn’t worth it.
Arrow Lake and it's refresh should be forgotten about.
Nova Lake is the exciting new chip from Intel that may just return us to competition. The Nova Lake platform is excellent, with a huge number of PCIE gen 5 lanes. Just needs the CPU performance to be good!
Unless nova lake is on AM5 it’s pretty terrible platform. Zen7 is looking silly fast especially on the potential APU performance.
AMD Zen 6 Rumored to Match Nova Lake With Up to 288MB Cache
New rumors suggest that AMD is preparing a much more aggressive cache configuration for its upcoming Zen 6 desktop processors, directly targeting Intel’s next-generation Nova Lake platform.
www.guru3d.com
Zen 6 rumoured to have big gains in cache to match with Nova lake leaks.
1 CCD = 144MB
2 CCD = 288MB
How much extra advantage this will have for gaming, who knows.
Caporegime
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Juicy.AMD Zen 6 Rumored to Match Nova Lake With Up to 288MB Cache
New rumors suggest that AMD is preparing a much more aggressive cache configuration for its upcoming Zen 6 desktop processors, directly targeting Intel’s next-generation Nova Lake platform.
Zen 6 rumoured to have big gains in cache to match with Nova lake leaks.
1 CCD = 144MB
2 CCD = 288MB
How much extra advantage this will have for gaming, who knows.
Wonder how much actual gain it will result in though. If its linear then we might be in for a treat