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*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

I would be happy to pay £450 for an 8/16 RyZen that was trading blows with a 6900k lol, its odd though, they kept going on about 6900k, putting that in your mind, going on about the price, showing the RyZen competing with it in benchmarks and games etc, but then they show it against a 6700k as well, but the bias was definitely towards the 6900k...

While i would pay £450 for that chip, i think its going to be closer to £700+
 
That's the thing, if this really compares with the 6900k, a $1000 CPU why on earth do you sell at $500, even at $800 you would still sell all you could make.

If the $500 price point is correct for the top chip and £350 for the next one down, which is only a couple of hundred MHz slower. Then there is a reason why AMD has chosen this price point.

Performance, cooling needed, motherboard cost, sales projections, pricing department insanity, Psst Scots home early, who knows.

Only AMD know why they will choose the prices they will, but if those leaked prices are correct, and the performance that good, then why so cheap, what's the catch.
 
there is no catch AMD have stated that they are targeting 50% market share, to achieve that they have to make some waves. its not easy to make the intel fanboys switch to AMD. just look how some of them are acting in this thread. cpus are made of sand not gold, intels cpu and gpu prices are ridiculously high.
 
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That's the thing, if this really compares with the 6900k, a $1000 CPU why on earth do you sell at $500, even at $800 you would still sell all you could make.

If the $500 price point is correct for the top chip and £350 for the next one down, which is only a couple of hundred MHz slower. Then there is a reason why AMD has chosen this price point.

Performance, cooling needed, motherboard cost, sales projections, pricing department insanity, Psst Scots home early, who knows.

Only AMD know why they will choose the prices they will, but if those leaked prices are correct, and the performance that good, then why so cheap, what's the catch.

Market share grab? AMD know they have lost a lot of confidence of their consumers over the years for inferior products.. Fiji showed them pricing a item high does not make it a premium item if the item itself is under par.

AMD need market share, they need to instil confidence in their consumers again, people are not going to gamble their cash on an expensive chip if theres no performance anyhow, and if it is there, theres still the nagging doubt in many peoples minds that the chip will probably fall short in one or multiple other areas.

AMD have gone on record with their whole RTG thing about being a revolution, despite Brexit those Polaris cards were priced cheaply for what they were, yeah they were a bit naff, but they were still cheap. And they have clawed back market share, if anything that has shown them they have willing consumers if they get their pricing right.

As i said previously, if the RyZen was magically a 6900k competitor and you priced it within £100 or so of the 6700k you effectively make 2 tiers of Intel chips irrelevant, like it or not that would be the case, you would not pay the extra for the 6900k as you could get the same for half the price, and you would be tempted to pay the extra £100 for the higher performance of the RyZen. Intel would have a lot of work to do, to keep market share at that point.

Its not like RyZen is going to be replaced next year either i would imagine, so might aswell come in hard with a groundbreaking price, really shake up the CPU market and see what Intel counter with, while their team are building up for the next tier etc.

But they could say well our stuffs as good as Intels now so were pricing it as such, they would get sales, off the back of it being a little cheaper, if the performance was the same, lower TDP, and some nice new fancy features etc, but not nearly as many as they would if they was ultra aggressive with pricing.

Id imagine people with 6900k setups would probably sell them and get RyZen setups if AMD priced them low enough, ive already seen people selling other high end Intel chips and even state the reason they are doing so is because they want to move to Zen, go check the MM here, theres a few for sale.
 
That's the thing, if this really compares with the 6900k, a $1000 CPU why on earth do you sell at $500, even at $800 you would still sell all you could make.

If the $500 price point is correct for the top chip and £350 for the next one down, which is only a couple of hundred MHz slower. Then there is a reason why AMD has chosen this price point.

Performance, cooling needed, motherboard cost, sales projections, pricing department insanity, Psst Scots home early, who knows.

Only AMD know why they will choose the prices they will, but if those leaked prices are correct, and the performance that good, then why so cheap, what's the catch.

A 6900k doesn't cost $1100 to make, it doesn't cost $200. So if AMD release the top tier Zen at $800, Intel just make their 6900k $850 and make the price of Zen seem less attractive, or they price it at $700 and AMD drop the price to $500... and they seem like they overpriced their chip and tried to rip off customers.

The price of a 6900k in a market with no competition and a fair price for the 6900k in a market WITH competition are two very different things.

If AMD do go $500, which might be a fair price, then Intel are extremely unlikely to put their chip down to sub $700 as they have an entire pricing structure to maintain and have other chips in the range below it to keep the margins up on. So why wouldn't AMD go in for that 'final' price straight away and get all the good publicity for great pricing and forcing Intel to drop prices?

They'll reinforce the 'good guy not screwing you' image they have, they'll win lots of sales by being that price anyway and they'll make Intel look like they were screwing their customers over in pricing all by simply launching at the price they'd probably have to drop to within a few weeks at most anyway.
 
I'm not saying I wouldn't like 6900K performance for 350 pound.
But I'm not expecting it.

If it was $500 thats basically £400, currently the 6700k is what? £360 or so? id think if it had 6900k levels of perf they would want to get more money for it, but like i say the gamble is if you go too high your pricing it basically for the extreme top end of users, people willing to spend £360 on a 6700k are probably going to go to £450 for a 6900k but not going to go £550 or more for it, they'll leave that to the real top tier buyers.

If im AMD and i want to take market share hard and fast, im releasing RyZen at £400-£450 and watching the coffers swell, i bet if you look at CPU statistics there are more people using 6600k and 6700k level of cpu's than there are using 6900k level cpus, if you want the lions share of the market those are your target audience, not the elite few with deep pockets who buy the 6900k.

AMD need to be smart here, they need to come in at a price point that doesn't necessarily make you go "Wow wtf thats cheap! wheres the catch?" but more "Wow thats not badly priced at all"
 
Market share grab? AMD know they have lost a lot of confidence of their consumers over the years for inferior products.. Fiji showed them pricing a item high does not make it a premium item if the item itself is under par.

AMD need market share, they need to instil confidence in their consumers again, people are not going to gamble their cash on an expensive chip if theres no performance anyhow, and if it is there, theres still the nagging doubt in many peoples minds that the chip will probably fall short in one or multiple other areas.

AMD have gone on record with their whole RTG thing about being a revolution, despite Brexit those Polaris cards were priced cheaply for what they were, yeah they were a bit naff, but they were still cheap. And they have clawed back market share, if anything that has shown them they have willing consumers if they get their pricing right.

As i said previously, if the RyZen was magically a 6900k competitor and you priced it within £100 or so of the 6700k you effectively make 2 tiers of Intel chips irrelevant, like it or not that would be the case, you would not pay the extra for the 6900k as you could get the same for half the price, and you would be tempted to pay the extra £100 for the higher performance of the RyZen. Intel would have a lot of work to do, to keep market share at that point.

Its not like RyZen is going to be replaced next year either i would imagine, so might aswell come in hard with a groundbreaking price, really shake up the CPU market and see what Intel counter with, while their team are building up for the next tier etc.

But they could say well our stuffs as good as Intels now so were pricing it as such, they would get sales, off the back of it being a little cheaper, if the performance was the same, lower TDP, and some nice new fancy features etc, but not nearly as many as they would if they was ultra aggressive with pricing.

Id imagine people with 6900k setups would probably sell them and get RyZen setups if AMD priced them low enough, ive already seen people selling other high end Intel chips and even state the reason they are doing so is because they want to move to Zen, go check the MM here, theres a few for sale.

The thing is, if the performance is there, they will sell all they can make to begin with, almost regardless of price.
So if you are gonna make and sell 250,000 units (made up number) regardless, why sell them at $500 when you could sell them at $800.
 
A 6900k doesn't cost $1100 to make, it doesn't cost $200. So if AMD release the top tier Zen at $800, Intel just make their 6900k $850 and make the price of Zen seem less attractive, or they price it at $700 and AMD drop the price to $500... and they seem like they overpriced their chip and tried to rip off customers.

The price of a 6900k in a market with no competition and a fair price for the 6900k in a market WITH competition are two very different things.

If AMD do go $500, which might be a fair price, then Intel are extremely unlikely to put their chip down to sub $700 as they have an entire pricing structure to maintain and have other chips in the range below it to keep the margins up on. So why wouldn't AMD go in for that 'final' price straight away and get all the good publicity for great pricing and forcing Intel to drop prices?

They'll reinforce the 'good guy not screwing you' image they have, they'll win lots of sales by being that price anyway and they'll make Intel look like they were screwing their customers over in pricing all by simply launching at the price they'd probably have to drop to within a few weeks at most anyway.

Exactly this, i would say a lot of high end Intel users would probably sell their rigs to try out Ryzen, some would probably be mad enough at Intel to boycott them for a good while.

Its no secret many people are not happy with Intels small gains each gen and pushing the prices up, people have even said they feel milked by Intel but what are the other options? none....

AMD can be very clever here, they can win massive market share, cause massive upset at two tiers of Intel products (6700k / 6900k) and come off looking like Jesus at the last supper handing out premium upgrades at Lidl prices left right and center.
 
If it was $500 thats basically £400, currently the 6700k is what? £360 or so? id think if it had 6900k levels of perf they would want to get more money for it, but like i say the gamble is if you go too high your pricing it basically for the extreme top end of users, people willing to spend £360 on a 6700k are probably going to go to £450 for a 6900k but not going to go £550 or more for it, they'll leave that to the real top tier buyers.

If im AMD and i want to take market share hard and fast, im releasing RyZen at £400-£450 and watching the coffers swell, i bet if you look at CPU statistics there are more people using 6600k and 6700k level of cpu's than there are using 6900k level cpus, if you want the lions share of the market those are your target audience, not the elite few with deep pockets who buy the 6900k.

AMD need to be smart here, they need to come in at a price point that doesn't necessarily make you go "Wow wtf thats cheap! wheres the catch?" but more "Wow thats not badly priced at all"

+1

A 6900k doesn't cost $1100 to make, it doesn't cost $200. So if AMD release the top tier Zen at $800, Intel just make their 6900k $850 and make the price of Zen seem less attractive, or they price it at $700 and AMD drop the price to $500... and they seem like they overpriced their chip and tried to rip off customers.

The price of a 6900k in a market with no competition and a fair price for the 6900k in a market WITH competition are two very different things.

If AMD do go $500, which might be a fair price, then Intel are extremely unlikely to put their chip down to sub $700 as they have an entire pricing structure to maintain and have other chips in the range below it to keep the margins up on. So why wouldn't AMD go in for that 'final' price straight away and get all the good publicity for great pricing and forcing Intel to drop prices?

They'll reinforce the 'good guy not screwing you' image they have, they'll win lots of sales by being that price anyway and they'll make Intel look like they were screwing their customers over in pricing all by simply launching at the price they'd probably have to drop to within a few weeks at most anyway.

+1

Exactly this, i would say a lot of high end Intel users would probably sell their rigs to try out Ryzen, some would probably be mad enough at Intel to boycott them for a good while.

Its no secret many people are not happy with Intels small gains each gen and pushing the prices up, people have even said they feel milked by Intel but what are the other options? none....

AMD can be very clever here, they can win massive market share, cause massive upset at two tiers of Intel products (6700k / 6900k) and come off looking like Jesus at the last supper handing out premium upgrades at Lidl prices left right and center.

+1
 
I'd be more inclined to expect

4C 8T Zen at the same price point as Intels 4C 4T.
6C 12T Zen at the same price point as Intels 4C 8T
8C 16T Zen at the same price point as Intels 6C 12T.

That way AMD undercut Intel.
Lisa Su has stated previously she doesn't want AMD to be seen as the budget brand.
 
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I'd be more inclined to expect

4C 8T Zen at the same price point as Intels 4C 4T.
6C 12T Zen at the same price point as Intels 4C 8T
8C 16T Zen at the same price point as Intels 6C 12T.

That way AMD undercut Intel.
Lisa Su has stated previously she doesn't want AMD to be seen as the budget brand. T


you just dont get it.

with that pricing structure the die hard intel fanboys will still buy intel.

to gain 50% market share they have to beat 6700k on price and performance.

no one will see amd as a budget brand if it beats intel on price and performance. everyone knows intel prices are a rip off.

just a better product at a better price.....that is the road to success.
 
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The thing is, if the performance is there, they will sell all they can make to begin with, almost regardless of price.
So if you are gonna make and sell 250,000 units (made up number) regardless, why sell them at $500 when you could sell them at $800.

Yeah i understand what your saying but AMD dont have the market confidence to even pull that off right now, their name is almost mud with regards to CPU right now since the Bulldozer fiasco, coupled with the Fiji rubbish, Polaris pulled them back some market share, but there was still a big issue over the PCIE power thing.

People still dont trust AMD drivers after all these years, stigma sticks.

You offer someone a premium product at a premium price and they have the money but dont like your brand they wont buy it, you offer them the premium product at a much reduced price and they dont like your brand, they may well buy it, they may moan and grumble while doing so but they will have a dabble.

I know, i bought a 1070 after vowing i would never buy another Nvidia card (havent owned one in 12+ years) yeah its not really a cheap card but there was no other competition at the time and it was cheaper than buying a FuryX and faster as well. I still despise Nvidia though ;)

My point is, if you would to change mindsets, you have to bring confidence back to the consumer, you have to sometimes take a hit in the pocket to build up faith in your brand again, then build from there.
 
you just dont get it.

with that pricing structure the die hard intel fanboys will still buy intel.

Die hard Intel fanboys won't buy AMD. If they did, they wouldn't be die hard Intel fanboys.
No company thinks their product applies to everyone (Unless it's toilet roll)

Factor in the UK's a mess as far as pricing goes anyway ;https://www.overclockers.co.uk/inte...v3-processor-retail-free-games-cp-611-in.html versus https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i7-680...&ie=UTF8&qid=1481754054&sr=1-2&keywords=6700k
Who knows what to expect.

EDIT : They would be beating Intel's 6700K on price performance if they offer 6C 12T at the same price :confused:
 
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Die hard Intel fanboys won't buy AMD. If they did, they wouldn't be die hard Intel fanboys.
No company thinks their product applies to everyone (Unless it's toilet roll)

Factor in the UK's a mess as far as pricing goes anyway ;https://www.overclockers.co.uk/inte...v3-processor-retail-free-games-cp-611-in.html versus https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i7-680...&ie=UTF8&qid=1481754054&sr=1-2&keywords=6700k
Who knows what to expect.

EDIT : They would be beating Intel's 6700K on price performance if they offer 6C 12T at the same price :confused:

yeah that's scary and just shows how badly people are riding the brexit bandwagon to gougingville right now :(

You might be right actually with your prediction of tiers, although i expect to pay closer to £450 for a Ryzen, if i recall there was a rumor they would have a kinda "Black" edition with better overclocking or something? not sure i even believe that now given their info on the chip being able to clock itself higher depending on cooling? but maybe thats a feature of the "black" editions only? who knows.
 
Also if this leaked pricing is correct, $500-$150 for Ryzen where on earth do all the Bristol ridge APU's fit in. Obviously $150 downwards.


Actually I've just looked at the currant APU line up, from £129 downwards, so maybe it might work.
 
We ultimately don't know SKU's or anything really.
We could end up going back to bus clocking or anything really.

I definitely think they'll under price Intel, but I don't expect it to be too aggressive, if only because of the Fury X launch price wise.
 
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