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*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***
- Thread starter Boomstick777
- Start date
What I want to know is what are the software developers up to? Are they writing software optimised for all these choirs/threads? I think that is your best bet for predicting if AMD will catch up as they seem to be aimed towards parrelism more so than all out IPC.
Shoot me down if I'm talking nonsense but that's how it appears from what I've read...
Shoot me down if I'm talking nonsense but that's how it appears from what I've read...
Most games are a lot better threaded than they used to be, and games have lagged way behind other software. I.e. game developers are definitely putting more effort into threading than say ten years ago.
More interesting than developers putting loads of effort into threading though IMO is what impact DX12 has. It seems to me that most of the time game logic is far lighter than driver overhead, so if they can reduce the latter it might well take the CPU out of the equation.
Anyway, until new materials come out to replace CMOS increasing the core count is the only way to substantially increase computing power. (Unless VISC changes the entire model.)
More interesting than developers putting loads of effort into threading though IMO is what impact DX12 has. It seems to me that most of the time game logic is far lighter than driver overhead, so if they can reduce the latter it might well take the CPU out of the equation.
Anyway, until new materials come out to replace CMOS increasing the core count is the only way to substantially increase computing power. (Unless VISC changes the entire model.)
Intel's 7nm will use Indium-Gallium-Arsenide instead of silicon. It's capable of making very fast transistors but who knows what real-world impact will be.
With the advent of interposers and HSA we will have to reconsider the ATX form factor. In theory it is possible to have the CPU and high-end GPU connected directly, with unified next-gen memory and acting as one superchip.
PCIe is the bottleneck going forward. v4 = 32GB/s, HBM = 1TB/s.
With the advent of interposers and HSA we will have to reconsider the ATX form factor. In theory it is possible to have the CPU and high-end GPU connected directly, with unified next-gen memory and acting as one superchip.
PCIe is the bottleneck going forward. v4 = 32GB/s, HBM = 1TB/s.
Very true I saw a real improvement when I went to an SSD. Luckily for the hardware companies want usually trumps need!
Soldato
The cake is a lie!!! 
Here will be NO AMD Zen APU in 2016!!!
Benchlife leaked AMD desktop roadmap.
http://benchlife.info/amd-bristol-r...e-to-use-excavator-cpu-architecture-06122015/
Bristol Ridge is not based on Zen core but based on improved Excavator core.
Bristol Ridge will target July 2016 launch and Summit Ridge with true Zen core will target Oct 2016 launch.
Bristol Ridge in FM3 wont take advantage of x16 PCI Express Gen 3 as it limited to x8 PCI Express Gen 3.
Oh well very extremely disappointed, really very difficult to see the high end Zen regain marketshare alone. If not then AMD is finished dead and doomed in 2016.
Here will be NO AMD Zen APU in 2016!!!
Benchlife leaked AMD desktop roadmap.
http://benchlife.info/amd-bristol-r...e-to-use-excavator-cpu-architecture-06122015/
Bristol Ridge is not based on Zen core but based on improved Excavator core.
Bristol Ridge will target July 2016 launch and Summit Ridge with true Zen core will target Oct 2016 launch.
Bristol Ridge in FM3 wont take advantage of x16 PCI Express Gen 3 as it limited to x8 PCI Express Gen 3.
Oh well very extremely disappointed, really very difficult to see the high end Zen regain marketshare alone. If not then AMD is finished dead and doomed in 2016.
Soldato
Sorry for the belated reply I don't really bother with the forums much now..
I don't agree with you sorry. I'm not being belligerent, I just think that it's the price of Titan X and the 5960x that stop people buying them, not the need for them.
As we all know the bigger your PC with the more faster cores the bigger your willy is. Well how about AMD make it so that every one can have a nice big willy for, say, £400?
Though most people on here don't own Titan or a 8 core Intel it doesn't stop them wanting it. We'd all have it if we could and the price was right.
As I mentioned before I would be quite happy to ditch my 3970x that runs at 4.7ghz for an 8c 16t Zen. Why? well, how about when I run benchmarks and see that the 5960x demolishes my CPU? would I like to get 5960x scores? you bet your backside.
It's the price, man. I absolutely assure you of that. Building a 5960x rig with the graphical balls to back it up costs thousands of pounds.
Look at the original Athlons. They were faster than the comparative Intel but far cheaper. Every one bought one. Seriously, I bet that any enthusiast on this forum who has been around since, say, 2000 had, at some point, some flavour of that Athlon. Why? because you could go out with about £400 and build a top end rig.
Can't do that any more because Intel have been dominating so they dictate the prices. And they're high, believe me. I remember shuddering when I saw the 200 MMX and realised it was £400 or so. Now? the top end Intel costs nearly a grand, and the top end Nvidia GPU costs the same.
It's ridiculous. Some one needs to come along with a cheap, fast set of products and sort this crap out.
Let me give you an example about how we have evolved. Recently I decided that I was going to walk away from computers for a while (and I have, my only weakness is the restoration of an old friend, my Area 51 ALX) and get into something else. Something that involved going outside more.
So I decided on buying a decent high end radio controlled car. And I did, too, I bought a Schumacher Cougar.
Back story.
When I was a teenager I was big into RC cars and models. At that time to build a Schumacher car fully ball raced with a ESC (electronic speed controller) it cost around £600. That was about, oo, 1990.
I just built the latest iteration of the same car, with a good set of controls and two batteries and a posh fast charger for £350.
So mass production and more sales have actually made the prices go down, not up. It's the same with everything else too. A decent TV in the 90s cost about two grand. Now you can walk into Asda and buy a 42" for practically nothing. Same goes for refrigerators, washing machines and tumble driers.
The issue here is that the first thing that comes into the mind of any big corporation that has a winning product is push the price up as far as you dare. People will have no choice, because there's nothing else that good on the market.
AMD will change that. I absolutely assure you, if Zen is good then Intel will be forced to stop taking the pee and we can get back to those Athlon days. Where PC gaming was affordable and available to every one, not just rich people.
The cake is a lie!!!
Here will be NO AMD Zen APU in 2016!!!
Benchlife leaked AMD desktop roadmap.
http://benchlife.info/amd-bristol-r...e-to-use-excavator-cpu-architecture-06122015/
Bristol Ridge is not based on Zen core but based on improved Excavator core.
Bristol Ridge will target July 2016 launch and Summit Ridge with true Zen core will target Oct 2016 launch.
Bristol Ridge in FM3 wont take advantage of x16 PCI Express Gen 3 as it limited to x8 PCI Express Gen 3.
Oh well very extremely disappointed, really very difficult to see the high end Zen regain marketshare alone. If not then AMD is finished dead and doomed in 2016.
Yeah the Zen APU + GCN part is coming in 2017, the Zen (Same architecture) CPU only parts are coming in 2016. AMD have chosen to focus on the more profitable high end parts first and bring the better budget parts later on. This strategy makes sense, and desktop CPU is the area AMD really need to regain some ground.
Please could a mod change the thread title to >>> *** AMD Zen CPU / APU ***
Because we now know Zen will come on AM4 and CPU + APU will both work on same socket, that thread title would make more sense
Because we now know Zen will come on AM4 and CPU + APU will both work on same socket, that thread title would make more sense
Associate
Im looking forward for new ROG AM4 board and FX Zen . It could be interesting SKylake vs Zen fight.
. It could be interesting SKylake vs Zen fight.
Associate
Never appreciated AMDs / ATI GPUs , and still don't to a certain extent , there CPUs however hold dear memories and would do anything to bat from the red team. Give me something that makes me want to leave my 5820k
I'm actually heartened by the fact they are releasing pure CPUs first - it shows they have confidence that they can actually compete on CPU performance for the first time in years.
It's no secret that recent Intel CPUs put quite a bit of budget towards the on-board graphics (and they are getting better and better).
I don't expect AMD to equal Skylake clock - for clock but if they can land around haswell, offer 8 cores and save some money on cutting out the onboard graphics they can carve out a place.
It's no secret that recent Intel CPUs put quite a bit of budget towards the on-board graphics (and they are getting better and better).
I don't expect AMD to equal Skylake clock - for clock but if they can land around haswell, offer 8 cores and save some money on cutting out the onboard graphics they can carve out a place.
Associate
I think, the multithread of Zen FX will be at same level as Skylake, single performance worse. But overall good CPU.
AMD and fans remember Phenom II times. Example Phenom II x6 was awesome. In mutltihread as Nehalem for X58 or good Lynfields, OC was similar, power consumption similar also.
AMD and fans remember Phenom II times. Example Phenom II x6 was awesome. In mutltihread as Nehalem for X58 or good Lynfields, OC was similar, power consumption similar also.
For Zen to be a reasonable competitor to the giant that is Intel, the single thread performance needs a massive improvement. If Zen gets Broadwell IPC or greater, it will truly be the fastest progress we've ever seen from AMD. Hats off to them if they manage it.
Whilst the enthusiast in me wants to believe this is possible, the realistic part of me looks at AMD's R&D budget and compares it to Intel's, and simply doesn't seem realistic at all.
Whilst the enthusiast in me wants to believe this is possible, the realistic part of me looks at AMD's R&D budget and compares it to Intel's, and simply doesn't seem realistic at all.
Associate
its impossible, maybe in some situation could eb similar, but overall not. AMD had more effective multicore performance than Intel many years. I mean ratio to single core performance. So I believe for similar multithread performance, but a bit lower single. Maybe similar to Nehalem or Lnyfield.
If you compare example Lynfield vs Haswell, its not so huge difference (clock to clock as the similar architecture "core"). Haswell has some advantages in modern software, but in pure x86 without optimization its maybe only 10%.
Example there is review clock to clock (nehalem vs Sandy vs Ivy)
http://pctuning.tyden.cz/hardware/p...-cpu-za-posledni-roky-procesory-intel?start=5
If you compare example Lynfield vs Haswell, its not so huge difference (clock to clock as the similar architecture "core"). Haswell has some advantages in modern software, but in pure x86 without optimization its maybe only 10%.
Example there is review clock to clock (nehalem vs Sandy vs Ivy)
http://pctuning.tyden.cz/hardware/p...-cpu-za-posledni-roky-procesory-intel?start=5
not really worth its own thread but AMD have got Samsungs business with its ultra low end SoC chip.
http://www.cloudwedge.com/samsungs-new-thin-clients-to-use-amds-system-on-chip-4874/
http://www.cloudwedge.com/samsungs-new-thin-clients-to-use-amds-system-on-chip-4874/