*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[Sayso]

Drunkenmaster i like your posts but this is the real world, when you have no competition you can charge at the top end, until AMD compete nothing will change.
Ive said multiple times in this thread if AMD price this right its going to ne a massive shake up of the industry...i cant help thinking they are going to mess it up somehow though!

 

[drunkenmaster]

Drunkenmaster i like your posts but this is the real world, when you have no competition you can charge at the top end, until AMD compete nothing will change.
Ive said multiple times in this thread if AMD price this right its going to ne a massive shake up of the industry...i cant help thinking they are going to mess it up somehow though!

I'm not sure what relevance that has to what I said. The simple fact is if people educated themselves even the tiniest amounts they would think twice about the pricing and stop buying. If the consumer stops buying because the price is too high, Intel reduce prices.

It's got pretty much nothing at all to do with AMD. When AMD has competitive GPUs, people still convinced themselves to get something almost the same speed at sometimes 50% higher cost, same with Intel and AMD on CPUs in the past.

The consumer controls the price, not competition. Competition means people buy AMD, stop buying Intel and Intel drop the prices... but it's the stop buying that causes the prices to drop and can be done without AMD even existing. Intel's job is to sell you things, if you don't like the price and stop buying, they'll drop prices down to where people will start buying again.

We've always had complete control of pricing, it's people ignoring that fact and blindly paying whatever is asked that causes spiralling costs.

Nvidia took the 'lets see how much we can rip them off' pricing too far with Titan Z, $3000 at launch, flop, like 7 sold worldwide, within a month or two it was price dropped to $2000, yet no one seems to realise they have absolutely all the power when it comes to pricing.

 

[Curlyriff]

AMD was very specific on what they said - Lisa Su said in her talk 8C/16t will be launching at 3.4ghz AT LEAST.

It's why they demoed it at 3.4ghz since this is the lowest clockspeed it will be launched at. It's why the slide said 3.4ghz - that is what we get at launch.

Do you honestly think AMD would get away with launching 8c/16t chips to big review sites if the SKUs are under 3.4ghz - they would get roasted for it.

AMD is confident they will get 3.4ghz upward for launch SKUs.

If they were not she would have said nothing about clockspeeds.

We don't know what other SKUs amd will launch and that is where the speculation is.
We even are unsure if 4C and 6c will launch anytime soon.

CAT you are clearly not reading or ignoring what's in saying so will refrain from replying because your clearly incapable of understanding both facts and logic. You are very frustrating considering what's been said.

 

[Harlequin]

CAT you are clearly not reading or ignoring what's in saying so will refrain from replying because your clearly incapable of understanding both facts and logic. You are very frustrating considering what's been said.

you do actually understand , that as of 07/02/2017 - everything is pure and utter guesswork from anyone don't you? all rumours.

 

[harney]

I'm not sure what relevance that has to what I said. The simple fact is if people educated themselves even the tiniest amounts they would think twice about the pricing and stop buying. If the consumer stops buying because the price is too high, Intel reduce prices.

It's got pretty much nothing at all to do with AMD. When AMD has competitive GPUs, people still convinced themselves to get something almost the same speed at sometimes 50% higher cost, same with Intel and AMD on CPUs in the past.

The consumer controls the price, not competition. Competition means people buy AMD, stop buying Intel and Intel drop the prices... but it's the stop buying that causes the prices to drop and can be done without AMD even existing. Intel's job is to sell you things, if you don't like the price and stop buying, they'll drop prices down to where people will start buying again.

We've always had complete control of pricing, it's people ignoring that fact and blindly paying whatever is asked that causes spiralling costs.

Nvidia took the 'lets see how much we can rip them off' pricing too far with Titan Z, $3000 at launch, flop, like 7 sold worldwide, within a month or two it was price dropped to $2000, yet no one seems to realise they have absolutely all the power when it comes to pricing.

Agree completely...

 

[Beren]

Thanks Panos - I have no clue what the CPP, Fin Pitch and Metal pitch numbers mean and how they might relate to transistor density on the chip. It is interesting that AMD have managed to make their L3 cache nearly 20% denser and when you consider the L2 cache is twice the size the 20% density increase is carrying over there as well...

I will be interested to see the total transistor count estimates when it releases. If they are actually achieving 20% more density in the CPU then it will be pretty close.

Of course it could just be how the chip is laid out and make no difference at all!

-Edit-
If the 4.2ghz is right that is epic. I am actually just hoping that we only have 3 more weeks to wait before we know for sure!

 

[Curlyriff]

you do actually understand , that as of 07/02/2017 - everything is pure and utter guesswork from anyone don't you? all rumours.

You do realise the 3.4GHz + for the 8C16T is fact based on what's been said by Lisa with the evidence provided and that people are miss reading/miss quoting what is said all over the place and come up with alternative "facts" that are unstubstantial in any context and then changed their argument or ignored the facts as we have them now because they are incapable of being wrong and thus argue a point where they are actually agreeing after and forgetting what was to the point that they have done a 180 and agreed with what I originally stated and can't see the trees through the wood.

It's hilarious because one or two have bothered read and the others just want to make an argument it seems. For instance you appear to have ignored the facts Lisa provided that backed up my points and where I separated my opinion, rumour and facts out clearly with evidence a few pages ago.

 

[djbully]

Some official blurb on AMD's website now. Haven't seen this mentioned.

http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/zen-cpu

 

[Harlequin]

You do realise the 3.4GHz + for the 8C16T is fact based on what's been said by Lisa with the evidence provided and that people are miss reading/miss quoting what is said all over the place and come up with alternative "facts" that are unstubstantial in any context and then changed their argument or ignored the facts as we have them now because they are incapable of being wrong and thus argue a point where they are actually agreeing after and forgetting what was to the point that they have done a 180 and agreed with what I originally stated and can't see the trees through the wood.

It's hilarious because one or two have bothered read and the others just want to make an argument it seems. For instance you appear to have ignored the facts Lisa provided that backed up my points and where I separated my opinion, rumour and facts out clearly with evidence a few pages ago.

Name one substantiated ` fact` , please supply empirical evidence to support your facts, because as of right now, everything is simply rumour.

 

[StarShock]

This is a little disappointing, but hey. I think this counts as us breaking a story.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=30481690&postcount=87

No AM4 ITX boards at launch.

 

[Hotwired]

Maybe they're shy about jumping in to ITX at launch when they've not being doing much with it before.

 

[StarShock]

My guess is its down to the chipset. They said at CES that they would have specific ITX chipsets, so might be that they didn't get the smaller chipsets as early as the mainstream ones, or just focused on working out the main stuff before starting on the smaller chipsets.

 

[cheesyboy]

Probably limited demand for ITX with no iGPU.

 

[Besty]

Well if it can be done asrock will do it as they are the currently the worlds best enthusiast mb manufacturer. If they say no itx at launch then it's gospel.

 

[StarShock]

Probably limited demand for ITX with no iGPU.

AM4 does support APUs and I believe there will be older poopy APUs available. But yeah, with a launch like this its understandable that there will be corners cut to get to market in time, and ITX is a relatively small market (excuse the pun)

Though I guess this means I'm not going to be able to get on day one. Though we still don't know if they're worth getting at all

 

[drunkenmaster]

Name one substantiated ` fact` , please supply empirical evidence to support your facts, because as of right now, everything is simply rumour.

Rubbish, AMD have released a LOT of information about Zen, there is a lot of information about the architecture, there is a lot of information about specific specs of core, like cache amounts, core counts and yes, AMD have gone on record saying the flagship chip will have minimum 3.4Ghz base clocks.

Pretending no information is out there and that everything is a rumour is ridiculous, because this is simply untrue.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10591...t-2-extracting-instructionlevel-parallelism/8

That is official slides with some higher level architecture detail, but that is what 6 months ago or so. If you understand some of it, there is some huge detail and extremely strong indications of huge performance improvements as well as direct claims about where AMD see performance compared to their previous chips.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/12/amd-zen-performance-details-release-date/


This is again an official slide from a public demonstration that gave specific details on the flagship model, actual shipping clock speed, no, but a absolute minimum clock, yes, absolutely.

Denying these things which are facts is completely ridiculous. Of all the public information we'll ever get about Zen, probably 70-80% of it is already out there. High level architecture overviews, out, whitepapers for devs to optimise code for it, that will have been out for 6-12 months already, cache, core count, base core speed for highest clocks, chipset specs, all available. Almost the only direct things we don't have are confirmed model numbers, confirmed shipping clocks, benchmarks and some finer detail on things like how turbo is implemented, etc. It just so happens those finer details like actual shipping clocks and benchmarks are what enthusiasts want the most, but it's also a very small amount of information compared to the rest, which is out there already.

 

[cheesyboy]

AM4 does support APUs and I believe there will be older poopy APUs available. But yeah, with a launch like this its understandable that there will be corners cut to get to market in time, and ITX is a relatively small market (excuse the pun)

Though I guess this means I'm not going to be able to get on day one. Though we still don't know if they're worth getting at all

Yeah, I'm surprised that there are going to be no ITXs at all, to be honest. It would be worth it for one manufacturer to take a punt, you would think.

 

[Curlyriff]

Name one substantiated ` fact` , please supply empirical evidence to support your facts, because as of right now, everything is simply rumour.

I provided evidence, Lisa gave it with their slides. Sorry but I am out of this conversation because tbh people are just going around in circles without even bothering to read what is there.

The only fact I have stated is that we know that the 8 core 16 thread Ryzen chips will be 3.4GHz for the mainstream user desktop base. That is it. It is provided by AMD themselves and Lisa.

There is no need to suggest anything else at all as nothing else was stated. I made that point, gave the link to her saying as such and people still want to suggest that she stated ALL Ryzen chips regardless of SKU will be 3.4GHz which is not the case.

 

[Curlyriff]

Rubbish, AMD have released a LOT of information about Zen, there is a lot of information about the architecture, there is a lot of information about specific specs of core, like cache amounts, core counts and yes, AMD have gone on record saying the flagship chip will have minimum 3.4Ghz base clocks.

Pretending no information is out there and that everything is a rumour is ridiculous, because this is simply untrue.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10591...t-2-extracting-instructionlevel-parallelism/8

That is official slides with some higher level architecture detail, but that is what 6 months ago or so. If you understand some of it, there is some huge detail and extremely strong indications of huge performance improvements as well as direct claims about where AMD see performance compared to their previous chips.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/12/amd-zen-performance-details-release-date/


This is again an official slide from a public demonstration that gave specific details on the flagship model, actual shipping clock speed, no, but a absolute minimum clock, yes, absolutely.

Denying these things which are facts is completely ridiculous. Of all the public information we'll ever get about Zen, probably 70-80% of it is already out there. High level architecture overviews, out, whitepapers for devs to optimise code for it, that will have been out for 6-12 months already, cache, core count, base core speed for highest clocks, chipset specs, all available. Almost the only direct things we don't have are confirmed model numbers, confirmed shipping clocks, benchmarks and some finer detail on things like how turbo is implemented, etc. It just so happens those finer details like actual shipping clocks and benchmarks are what enthusiasts want the most, but it's also a very small amount of information compared to the rest, which is out there already.

Don't worry DM, I am done with this thread when people are ignoring official AMD information now, removing context of posts, switching views to have an argument over nothing or just ignoring it because they were proved wrong.

It is pointless to try and actually discuss Ryzen in these forums because people don't even understand the basics of information we have been officially provided.

 

[~>Dg<~]

if we honest unless in the loop no one knows nothing.its pretty much that simple.

just speculation.many are eager for real info and what the new amd cpus can do.

i havent seen one post that says this is how fast they are how much they cost.which is basically all we want to know and no one has shown or done it yet.