*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[Kelt]

Games are starting to use multiple cores.

Off the top of my head, Dying Light, Battlefield 1, The Witcher 3...all using multiple threads which is nice to see being used on my X5650.

This was in reply to hotwired's post about why we need more than 4 cores but the quote system isn't working for me at the moment.

 

[Doogles]

All Ryzen are unlocked.

And if true the pricing, want to put pre-order for retail 1800X NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW


My 6700K going to be handed over to my brother. It will be worthless on the second hand market.....

Yeah if the 6700k goes to £100 I'll just buy one of those used and a cheap board XD

 

[Dave2150]

Games are starting to use multiple cores.

Off the top of my head, Dying Light, Battlefield 1, The Witcher 3...all using multiple threads which is nice to see being used on my X5650.

This was in reply to hotwired's post about why we need more than 4 cores but the quote system isn't working for me at the moment.

Quad cores (6700k, 7700k) still outperform hex and octa core CPU's in 99% of games. This is due to the HEDT platform using older generation cores, and not being able to match their raw clock speeds.

Don't expect game developers to care about hex cores until the average gaming PC out there has one - which will take many, many years.

Also you'll be seeing weird results on your x5650, as it's a very old CPU with low IPC and clock speed.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

What are some of you guys wanting a core monster for.

Photoshop / Premier / After Effects / 3DSMAX

Don't expect game developers to care about hex cores until the average gaming PC out there has one - which will take many, many years.

That will change if Ryzen is a success.

 

[xs2man]

Don't expect game developers to care about hex cores until the average gaming PC out there has one - which will take many, many years.

Or 3 weeks, if that pricing is to be believed.

Or at least 6 cores as average, assuming the 6/12 will be i5 priced, and therefore become the "average" gaming PC.

 

[Mauller]

Quad cores (6700k, 7700k) still outperform hex and octa core CPU's in 99% of games. This is due to the HEDT platform using older generation cores, and not being able to match their raw clock speeds.

Don't expect game developers to care about hex cores until the average gaming PC out there has one - which will take many, many years.

Also you'll be seeing weird results on your x5650, as it's a very old CPU with low IPC and clock speed.

Current games already need to use 4 - 8 or more threads due to current consoles. The only major thing holding back pc gaming is dx11.

 

[StarShock]

That pretty much counts AMD out for me for the time-being. I really hope this does not follow other AMD launches where the mini-ITX motherboards don't get released for yonks.



Edit!!

Anyway thanks for the link.

Same boat. I'm hopeful that they won't be far behind. And one of the big boys might sneak one out in time for launch. Maybe. Ever hopeful

 

[stewski]

Photoshop / Premier / After Effects / 3DSMAX



That will change if Ryzen is a success.

Pretty much all those applications for me too, plus most/any other forms of encoding from handbrake to zip etc.

In fact every time I read multi core is valueless for XYZ I do something that flat out destroys all the cores (and hyper threading) simultaneously. Much was said about the lack of value of multicores/threads on our CAD workstation, then we check on an intensive task and full utilisation is reported.

Add to that fast adoption (when the price is right) and I believe many software applications will evolve or die. Obviously some tasks don't run anyway other than sequentially, but few truly have no possible room for improvement/optimisation.

 

[RSR]

All Ryzen are unlocked.

And if true the pricing, want to put pre-order for retail 1800X NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW


My 6700K going to be handed over to my brother. It will be worthless on the second hand market.....

My 6850K is worth even less now....

I'll take a 1800X at asking please!

 

[Panos]

My 6850K is worth even less now....

I'll take a 1800X at asking please!

yeah.

 

[Panos]

That pretty much counts AMD out for me for the time-being. I really hope this does not follow other AMD launches where the mini-ITX motherboards don't get released for yonks.



Edit!!

Anyway thanks for the link.

MSI, Biostar haven't made any negative declaration yet about X300 mITX boards.

Gigabyte, Asrock and Asus have said they will produce them, only if the Ryzen CPU sales are good enough.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

But TBH AMD only needs ONE decent enough mini-ITX motherboard. You need to consider,Intel does not really have a proper competitor - the socket 1151 motherboards are at most 4C/8T and the socket 2011 motherboards are very expensive in their mini-ITX versions and exceeding rare.

Ryzen being an SOC would give AMD something that Intel can't really do affordably at mainstream - offer 8C in a SFF system.

Imagine if at launch AMD showed off Project Quantum but this time with a Ryzen 8C/16T CPU and a Vega based graphics card??

The marketing alone would be great for AMD.

The more the mini-ITX motherboards are delayed the closer we get to Coffee Lake and even if Intel can only offer 6C(but probably with higher IPC and clockspeeds),it is far more competitive for Intel.

I remember back to Llano - the IGP it had was relatively much better than what AMD has now and even the CPU performance was relatively better than now too compared to the Core i3 CPUs. Power consumption was decent too.

I actually wanted a FM1 mini-ITX motherboard and a few other people wanted one too. Sadly it took yonks for them to come out and in the end I ended up getting a Core i3 2100 instead.

Edit!!

Its the same in the past,and I certainly know more people who want to build mini-ITX systems now due to size.

Look at the number of mini-ITX cases now even compared to 5 years ago??

It was the same issue with AM3+ except it was the lack of modern mATX motherboards which also put off people - AM3+ 970 based motherboards were already being made for OEM PCs and in the end only ASRock at a later date released one and when you consider how long AM3+ has been around for,the lack of 970 based mATX motherboards is kind of ridiculous.

 

[StarShock]

It's a bit of a circle. More itx motherboards, more itx cases, more people buy so more motherboards get made etc.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It's a bit of a circle. More itx motherboards, more itx cases, more people buy so more motherboards get made etc.

The problem is Intel has so many mini-ITX motherboards at launch or soon after launch with their new sockets.

AMD then takes yonks releasing them and people CBA waiting and just go Intel. It was the same with Llano - I waited and waited and in the end just bought a Core i3 2100 instead.

Plus they showed off Project Quantum with an Intel CPU,and they can't push to have even ONE mini-ITX motherboard at launch or soon after.

From what we have heard,Ryzen is an SOC too. That means as long as the VRMs are strong enough,then it should not be that hard to make a mini-ITX AM4 motherboard - you don't even really need a southbridge.

They just keep giving Intel chances,like they do with Nvidia.

Look at how so many companies are putting in effort into high power SFX PSUs and you can get even get SFF GTX1070 and GTX1080 cards.

FFS,look at the Fury Nano and Fury X - they are SFF graphics cards.

Yet,whether AMD will even have AM4 mini-ITX motherboards at all is another thing.

It will be hilarious if one of the Vega cards is SFF yet you need to buy an Intel based system to run it even if AMD has competitive CPUs.

No,lets launch a trillion mATX and ATX motherboards which are just different colours.

EPIC FAIL.

Edit!!

Plus all those socket 1151 and 2011 motherboards need a southbridge - they are technically harder to engineer for SFF motherboards.

 

[muon]

It's a shame that the £ lost so much value. Pricing looks really competitive.

 

[Beren]

I just wish I could be bothered to upload the Calm Down Dear jpg to somewhere so I could post it.

With this socket supporting the APU's as well as full fat I am sure we will see mini-ITX later in the year. I think they have done a pretty decent job in making sure there is strong motherboard support day one so far.

If these chips get even close to living up to the hype and the sales numbers back it up I am sure the other boards will be along sharpish.

 

[opethdisciple]

It's a shame that the £ lost so much value. Pricing looks really competitive.

Shouldn't it mean cheaper imports?

 

[~>Dg<~]

yes that alone should halt the hype train.if they were are that fast they would have a shed load of boards ready to shift.

now they have none or little ready.what does that tell you

 

[muon]

Shouldn't it mean cheaper imports?

If the £ is worth less does is cost more or fewer £s to buy something worth $100?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I just wish I could be bothered to upload the Calm Down Dear jpg to somewhere so I could post it.

With this socket supporting the APU's as well as full fat I am sure we will see mini-ITX later in the year. I think they have done a pretty decent job in making sure there is strong motherboard support day one so far.

If these chips get even close to living up to the hype and the sales numbers back it up I am sure the other boards will be along sharpish.

The end of the year means by that time Coffee Lake PR will be in full tilt - the same happened with Llano. So many of us who wanted Llano wanted it for SFF builds and by the time AMD got their finger out of their arse with it,it was way too late. People just ended up buying an Intel CPU.

Its basically the same even with some of their later APUs too.

AMD has something unique which Intel cannot offer now - 8C on a mainstream platform. Ryzen is an SOC,so it does not need a southbridge for a SFF system.

Look at the last few Intel sockets - they had mini-ITX motherboards very soon after launch. Those motherboards need a southbridge and more engineering.

SFF PCs are not like they used to be a decade ago - I have been building them for over 11 years now and the amount of effort put into the area is massively more than even 5 to 6 years ago. I have seen so many more people moving towards SFF PCs now. The whole Fury X and Fury Nano PR thing was hinting at this growing area.

The problem is if AMD don't have any of these motherboards available for yonks,its lost sales to Intel and if they delay them too long,people will just wait for Coffee Lake,and if those maintain a clockspeed and IPC advantage over whatever AMD has,even "only" having 6C will make them competitive,especially if they have a backup IGP too.

This is the same thing AMD has been doing for years regarding mini-ITX and even mATX.

HP had 970 based mATX motherboards in their PCs yonks before we ever saw even one released for actual sale.

All you could buy for years was 760G/780G based motherboards which were so ancient HT would not even run at full speed on a FX CPU.

The worst thing is they were boasting about how the Fury X and Fury Nano would be great for smaller systems and even made a custom mini-ITX system to show off the new line.

Yet,they apparently contradict that by not bothering to even have a mini-ITX motherboard at launch or soon after.

Lets wait and see - what is the chance one of the Vega cards is actually SFF due to HBM2 usage??

AMD will OFC need to show it off in an Intel system.

The thing is Intel has probably pushed SFF more and more has a way to sell the lower TDP of their CPUs,and this is why everyone from Corsair to Antec are producing more and more mini-ITX cases and SFX PSUs.

Nvidia has so many SFF cards out now - you have ITX GTX1060 and GTX1070 cards and short PCB GTX1080 cards. Guess what company is mopping up sales there??

Its almost like they are asleep regarding anything which is not full sized ATX.

Look at how quickly the Dan case A4-SFX out on OcUK - it had massive interest worldwide.

Its a £250 mini-ITX case which sold out in mere minutes.