*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[Gibbo]

Remember back in the day when overclocking was something you did with low end chips to bring to the performance of high end ones and the high end ones didn't have much headroom because they fulfilled their potential at stock?

I think the 1700 will be delivering this, remember all three chips are 8/16 with same cache and features. The only difference is clock speeds and the 1700 has a much lower base clock to drop into the 65W TDP category. This is where my money would go and then work on clocking it upto 1700X-1800X levels.

 

[Panos]

http://hwbot.org/submission/3352024_paralyzer2005_cpu_frequency_core_i7_6900k_5220_mhz

Yes Intel managed 5.220GHz at lower voltage 1.548V on 6900K, 4.8GHz at 1.306V is very good enough on water cooler perfect for 24/7 use and gaming.

I would be not very impressed if Ryzen 1800X cant run 4.8GHz stable on water cooler for 24/7 if voltage will be as high as 1.6V.

Less than 2% of all the 6900K can do 4.6 let alone 4.8!!!!!!! We are talking about some unicorn chips, and find me more than a handful.
The significant majority are stuck at 4.4-4.5 range, with a big chunk cannot even do that.

 

[smogsy]

No mainstream mobos offer 2 16x pci-e for xfire/sli, most importantly, it's completely and utterly unnecessary. Second, it's not going to be 16x and 8x in sli/xfire, it will be 8x/8x, leaving the other 8 for network/nvme/sata/everything else, afaik that is. Which is the sensible way to go about it.

Also, for 99% of people, a m.2 nvme drive makes precisely zero performance difference. Most of the difference people feel is in booting up a fresh install with a new drive and being amazed it feels snappier, then slowly over days/weeks you add a second here to boot times, and lose a little snappyness as you put more extensions into your browser, etc.

whilst i agree they keep referencing 6800/900Ks in their benchmarks, which have 28/40 Lanes. so whilst the intel maybe slower it can handle lot more I/O which where the AMD chip lets itself down. im not saying im "right" but theirs a difference in some fields where 24/40 lanes is a big deal.

 

[lltfdaniel]

I think the 1700 will be delivering this, remember all three chips are 8/16 with same cache and features. The only difference is clock speeds and the 1700 has a much lower base clock to drop into the 65W TDP category. This is where my money would go and then work on clocking it upto 1700X-1800X levels.

That is what i think as well.

 

[Willis]

I have a 1800x and Gigabyte GA-AX370 in my basket and just not sure to click the buy it now button. Just sold my x99 Xeon 18 core setup but not sure what Ryzen will be like running Adobe Premiere Pro

 

[Panos]

I think the 1700 will be delivering this, remember all three chips are 8/16 with same cache and features. The only difference is clock speeds and the 1700 has a much lower base clock to drop into the 65W TDP category. This is where my money would go and then work on clocking it upto 1700X-1800X levels.

If the 1700 can do 3.9-4Ghz at 65W TDP, with the 1800X at 95W TDP at same speed, surely something is amiss against the argument that they will overclock poorly if at all.

 

[TheBiznes]

I think the 1700 will be delivering this, remember all three chips are 8/16 with same cache and features. The only difference is clock speeds and the 1700 has a much lower base clock to drop into the 65W TDP category. This is where my money would go and then work on clocking it upto 1700X-1800X levels.

Trouble is you know and probably bought up most of stock knowing this after 28th -2nd March land reviews telling us just this. I like the hint though
(We just think this )

 

[Mei]

No mainstream mobos offer 2 16x pci-e for xfire/sli, most importantly, it's completely and utterly unnecessary. Second, it's not going to be 16x and 8x in sli/xfire, it will be 8x/8x, leaving the other 8 for network/nvme/sata/everything else, afaik that is. Which is the sensible way to go about it.

Also, for 99% of people, a m.2 nvme drive makes precisely zero performance difference. Most of the difference people feel is in booting up a fresh install with a new drive and being amazed it feels snappier, then slowly over days/weeks you add a second here to boot times, and lose a little snappyness as you put more extensions into your browser, etc.

yeh 8x and 16x for gfx cards seems zero to very little difference from what ive seen
m.2 is getting more popular tho, id like to see more m.2 slots or a easier way to use them, hotswap or whatever
i think they will be getting cheaper than 2.5 as mobile is using them a lot

 

[Lokken86]

I can't believe the demos AMD ran against the 6800k were actually the lowest RYZEN. That means 1700 will do for me. Cheap, cheerful and fast.

 

[Harlequin]

XFR is if you have a very well cooled chip it allows it self to clock further thing GPU boost 3.0

The only issue i see with Ryzen is PCi-E lanes

Scenerio #1 - the high end gamer
Xfire/SLI
GPU #1 = 16
GPU #2 = 8

BAD No Lanes left for 10G Ethernet/NVME or Other capture cards

Scenerio #2 - The average Gamer
Gpu #1 = 16
NVME = 4

Good 4 lanes left

Scenario #3 video creators
Gpu #1 = 16
NVME = 4

Bad not enough for A Capture card

Scenerio #4 researcher

GPU #1 = 16 (CUDA)
8 left for another pcie devices you require.


So little lanes, could be a big issue unless they have Chipsets giving more, (reducing perf) its the only thing putting me off. heck you cant even do Xfire x16 x2 (not a huge difference, but to not have it?)

Most likely in most cases enough... but i have doubts..

Z170 provides 20 pcie3 lanes BUT they connect to the cpu via DMI 3 link , so really that's the equivalent of only 4 extra because of DMI bandwidth limitations. So even Z170 boards cant do 16x/16x .

 

[Journey]

yeh 8x and 16x for gfx cards seems zero to very little difference from what ive seen
m.2 is getting more popular tho, id like to see more m.2 slots or a easier way to use them, hotswap or whatever
i think they will be getting cheaper than 2.5 as mobile is using them a lot

Again, you'll likely see 1-2 m.2 slot maximum, as U.2 slowly starts to replace the SATA connectors over the next couple of years. U.2 at the drive end uses the same physical connector as SATA Express.

 

[smogsy]

Z170 provides 20 pcie3 lanes BUT they connect to the cpu via DMI 3 link , so really that's the equivalent of only 4 extra because of DMI bandwidth limitations. So even Z170 boards cant do 16x/16x .

as i said before, they keep putting this against the 6800/6900K in benchmarks (7700K) to i agree. but the 6800/6900K both have many more Lanes avaliable

you compare 8 cores vs 8 6 vs 6

 

[Mei]

Again, you'll likely see 1-2 m.2 slot maximum, as U.2 slowly starts to replace the SATA connectors over the next couple of years. U.2 at the drive end uses the same physical connector as SATA Express.

well i think sata will be left for old spinny drives soon enough, i duno much about u.2 and why that will take over? what is mass produced/cheaper usually takes over? with m.2 on both mobile and desktop that makes the most sense to me

 

[drunkenmaster]

The fact is that the 8 core Zen is aimed solely at mainstream, there are plenty of content creators that will get everything they need and more within that price bracket, but those who want more need to go for something more expensive. 16 and 32 core Naples will also have far more i/o, in fact by the sounds of it, way more than Intel. The question really becomes, how does 16 core professional/server level stuff from AMD and lets say supermicro for mobos compare to Intel for pricing on their 10+ core chips. If AMD release some fairly cheap 1 socket solutions for cheap entry into professional content creation kind of market, with £300 mobos and £1500 chips with 16 cores, 32 pci-e lanes and chipsets with even more, then, that would be the better option.

I'm not sure AMD has the frankly manpower and time to make lots of niche products this year when trying to get a full stack of Zen products out over around a 6 month period with Vega thrown in as well.

AMD don't have to compete with every single product Intel have to do well, they currently compete only in gpu performance with their APUs, Zen as it's being made will make them dramatically more competitive in APU, brings them right into competitiveness with CPU and competitive in server as well. That is enough for one year.

 

[Hotwired]

as i said before, they keep putting this against the 6800/6900K in benchmarks (7700K) to i agree. but the 6800/6900K both have many more Lanes avaliable

you compare 8 cores vs 8 6 vs 6

And have a side helping of price discussion about what you're paying for.

 

[orbitalwalsh]

Can easily see boards running 2 NVMe ssds using the last PCIe slot. Key is how's its wired which we won't find out till 2nd . most z270 has dual m.2 but cheaper boards where wired up poorly to make sata and x1 slots redundant When they didn't need to be etc etc

 

[KrisWragg]

TBH I can't quite take the plunge and pre-order right now, really want to see reviews and see how much difference RAM makes, is it worth going for 3200 over 2666? Ideally I'd want 32GB to give me plenty of headroom for video editing, but 32GB kits of 3200+ are very pricey!

Also how much they overclock? if they mostly max out at just over 4Ghz might as well get a 1700 and a Noctua D15, if they can go much higher with good cooling I'd go for a new case and a good 240 or 280mm AIO cooler.

Finally, does the X offer anything other than just XFR? If not probably not worth going for a 1700X, still waiting to see if they have virtualisation extensions or not on the Ryzen chips?

Think I'll sit tight for another week and see what we learn and hope they aren't all gone by the end of next week

 

[drunkenmaster]

Again, you'll likely see 1-2 m.2 slot maximum, as U.2 slowly starts to replace the SATA connectors over the next couple of years. U.2 at the drive end uses the same physical connector as SATA Express.

U2 won't take over from sata, ever. High bandwidth connections take more power to support and take more traces to connect than low bandwidth ones. u2/m.2 performance makes zero difference to a single user right now and for frankly the next 4-5 years. If you replaced sata ports with U2 you would, increase idle power usage, increase load power usage, increase cost of motherboard through traces, increase cost of CPU by needing higher bandwidth for IO to support those ports, need a higher cost chipset for the same reason.... all to gain absolutely no end user benefit.

You need a combination of higher and lower speed connections and there is very little benefit to increasing cost to provide high speed connections for low speed devices and there is little benefit to replacing lower speed devices with higher speed devices when they offer increased cost and no benefit either.

 

[harney]

I think the 1700 will be delivering this, remember all three chips are 8/16 with same cache and features. The only difference is clock speeds and the 1700 has a much lower base clock to drop into the 65W TDP category. This is where my money would go and then work on clocking it upto 1700X-1800X levels.

Good point

there is this i have just found re the good old AMD pencil trick seems its back ...and with the Ryzen 1700 only so the X modals means no pencil trick ...go AMD

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[awaybreaktoday]

@Gibbo does the ROG Crosshair VI Hero AMD X370 support AM3 mounting kits?