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*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

humbug said:
Nothing AMD do will ever dictate Intel's pricing, people who think Intel's pricing structure has anything to do with AMD are nuts.
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Competition from AMD will drive down Intel's prices, I'm not nuts it's just simple supply and demand.

humbug said:
The only people who dictate Intel's pricing are those who buy computer hardware, If Zen does come good i would be very interested to see how many will still try to blame AMD for what Intel will continue to do.
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If AMD come good people will actually buy AMD and Intel won't be able to continue with current prices.

humbug said:
The only way Intel's pricing will change is if they lose significant market share to AMD, that will never happen, even when AMD had clearly better CPU's Intel still out sold them massively.
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Intel chipsets have always had a reputation for being the most reliable/stable, whereas AMD for a long time relied on VIA. When you're running mission critical computers it's not just all about benchmarks.
 
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Hotwired said:
Yerrr well, it would take an interesting point of view to say the consumers were given a choice sometimes.

Hence the wad of cash AMD managed to obtain on the basis of Intel paying companies to have nothing to do with AMD:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices,_Inc._v._Intel_Corp.
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Yeah, i know about that, been around long enough to have witnessed all that.

We will see, if the CPU is good it will depend on reviewers not being biased, i don't hold much faith in them, Nvidia send out review guides for the 1060 that are obviously designed to show the 1060 in the best possible light and the 480 in the worst, i don't have a problem with Nvidia doing that, one might say they have a duty to their share holders to try something like that on.
What got me was that every mainstream reviewer followed those instructions to varying extents, most of them changing their methods to accommodate Nvidia's instructions, none of them benching Doom in Vulkan despite having done exactly that just days before.

The truth is they all need pay cheques and they are happy to be the marketing arm of whoever writes those cheques, AMD's cheque book is empty.
 
jigger said:
Because Intel prices take the biscuit and you have to choose a dead end platform in either X99 or Z170.

I will wait for AM4.
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I'm on Z170. It sucks to on a dead end platform that will see out years and years of gaming and multiple GPU upgrade :rolleyes: Think of all those poor buggers who bought into SandyBridge and had no reason to upgrade for 5 year!

Oh wait, that makes a mockery of your argument :D
 
darket said:
You said that X99 or Z170 is a dead platform , every platform is essentially dead even before its release as in everything in the tech world , Am4 will be no different, its just Amd will string it out longer than intel just look at the ulta new refresh of Am3 ....
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X99 and Z170 are dead end systems :( AM4 will be brand new and unify AMD's CPU's. No more being forced to make a choice between a faster chip with lower core count or a slower one with more cores.
 
jigger said:
X99 and Z170 are dead end systems :( AM4 will be brand new and unify AMD's CPU's. No more being forced to make a choice between a faster chip with lower core count or a slower one with more cores.
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.........or being allowed to overclock any particular 'black' CPU without artificial motherboard / chipset restrictions being created. (I hope).
 
=XDC=FluphyBunny said:
I'm on Z170. It sucks to on a dead end platform that will see out years and years of gaming and multiple GPU upgrade :rolleyes: Think of all those poor buggers who bought into SandyBridge and had no reason to upgrade for 5 year!

Oh wait, that makes a mockery of your argument :D
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Sorry you got offended because I called your system dead end :p but Z170 is a pretty pointless upgrade for most people. Even when Z170 was brand new it offered very little.
 
humbug said:
Yeah, i know about that, been around long enough to have witnessed all that.

We will see, if the CPU is good it will depend on reviewers not being biased, i don't hold much faith in them, Nvidia send out review guides for the 1060 that are obviously designed to show the 1060 in the best possible light and the 480 in the worst, i don't have a problem with Nvidia doing that, one might say they have a duty to their share holders to try something like that on.
What got me was that every mainstream reviewer followed those instructions to varying extents, most of them changing their methods to accommodate Nvidia's instructions, none of them benching Doom in Vulkan despite having done exactly that just days before.

The truth is they all need pay cheques and they are happy to be the marketing arm of whoever writes those cheques, AMD's cheque book is empty.
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people still use cheques?!? :eek:
 
jigger said:
Sorry you got offended because I called your system dead end :p but Z170 is a pretty pointless upgrade for most people. Even when Z170 was brand new it offered very little.
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The 6700k actually seems to do quite well for gaming in comparison to older chips, even the 4790k can show a double figure deficit in some games, I was quite surprised at the improvement it offered over Devils canyon considering the 4790k boosts to 4.4 and the 6700k boosts to 4.2, Then you need to remember it brought ddr4 to the mainstream and it allowed improved read/write speeds even over Z97 with has M.2. So no Z170 did in fact bring some good upgrades over what it replaced.

But this is meant to be a Zen thread so for me I do not like the fact that Intel won't take the mainstream chips beyond 4 cores so if I can double my core count and keep my single thread performance while adding ddr4 etc by going with Zen I will.
 
nashathedog said:
The 6700k actually seems to do quite well for gaming in comparison to older chips, even the 4790k can show a double figure deficit in some games, I was quite surprised at the improvement it offered over Devils canyon considering the 4790k boosts to 4.4 and the 6700k boosts to 4.2, Then you need to remember it brought ddr4 to the mainstream and it allowed improved read/write speeds even over Z97 with has M.2. So no Z170 did in fact bring some good upgrades over what it replaced.

But this is meant to be a Zen thread so for me I do not like the fact that Intel won't take the mainstream chips beyond 4 cores so if I can double my core count and keep my single thread performance while adding ddr4 etc by going with Zen I will.
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Sky Lake helps a lot if fast 4 Channel DDR4 is used, thats its real advantage, IPC is again just error margin better.
 
nashathedog said:
The 6700k actually seems to do quite well for gaming in comparison to older chips, even the 4790k can show a double figure deficit in some games, I was quite surprised at the improvement it offered over Devils canyon considering the 4790k boosts to 4.4 and the 6700k boosts to 4.2, Then you need to remember it brought ddr4 to the mainstream and it allowed improved read/write speeds even over Z97 with has M.2. So no Z170 did in fact bring some good upgrades over what it replaced.

But this is meant to be a Zen thread so for me I do not like the fact that Intel won't take the mainstream chips beyond 4 cores so if I can double my core count and keep my single thread performance while adding ddr4 etc by going with Zen I will.
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Z97 M.2 can only use two lanes* which will be a bottleneck for the SSDs. this is vs four lanes of the z170.

*Except for one asrock board but it has to knock the first pcie slot down to x8 to do so.
 
pooley said:
people still use cheques?!? :eek:
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Cheques do not require the recipients bank details to be given out or known at all.

So a parent might give a child a cheque to go to a known name e.g. a club, school without having the extra hassle of needing to know exact bank details.

There has to be some degree of trust in this and you wouldn't accept cheques from people you have little to zero ability to chase up unless you can clear them beforehand.

For example a B&B might accept cheques if cleared before the stay but not as payment on the day.

They can be post dated to cover expected payments in the future as a kind of promissory note. Same kind of deal as with a credit card in that you promise money and make good on it later.

They are not obsolete but there are efforts to make them so.
 
I'd much rather buy a CPU that works properly than any of that new crud from intel that can't even run prime95 without errors. X99 would have been a thought but then again I've read too much about problems with the boards and memory not being recognised anymore.

Don't exactly NEED a faster cpu as I don't game on my PC anymore but I'm well overdue a new PC project, and Intel can kiss my hairy bum if they think I'm going to give them monies for a stupid 5% increase in IPC.

Missed AMD since faildozer - all is forgiven my friend, now kick some rear with the new stuff!
 
zoomee said:
Don't exactly NEED a faster cpu as I don't game on my PC anymore but I'm well overdue a new PC project, and Intel can kiss my hairy bum if they think I'm going to give them monies for a stupid 5% increase in IPC.

Missed AMD since faildozer - all is forgiven my friend, now kick some rear with the new stuff!
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AMD would have provided the same 5% IPC increases over this past few years (Bulldozer > Piledriver > Steamroller > Excavator) had they not rightly realised that the FX architecture was a right off.
 
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