*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[ltron]

On the ram speed thing I would like to say that the intel 6 and 8 core cpus have had IMC speed problems since launch in 2011. The facts are that AMD are officially supporting a faster speed than intel on day 1 of launch of a brand new 8 core cpu architecture. This is a huge accomplishment which should be applauded.

Also, raw MHz is not everything, a tightly timed 2666mhz kit can outrun a 3xxx MHz kit given the right timings.

Lastly I would also point out that I no longer use ASus motherboards of any type simply due to their fault rate and bugs. This is not limited to Ryzen. If you want a top board come back in q4 when no doubt we will have a Asrock OC formula to buy.

I would agree with you were the speed of the link between core clusters not linked to the RAM speed as it is in Ryzen's case. It would have been great if this link were independent of RAM speed and user adjustable, if that's even possible, then it wouldn't matter as much what kit you bought.

I have a 5820k with 32GB of DDR 4 2133 with tight timings and dual sided (my bandwidth scores are about 10% higher than single sided kits) and it's fine, not far behind my old 16GB 3000 MHz kit in Aida64.

I agree with you about Asus, I've had two Asus boards: the first, a P4C800, worked perfectly for two years before failing. My current Asus Sabertooth X99 has been giving me all sorts of issues(it's either the CPU or the board I've eliminated everything else) whereas my Gigabyte X58 UD5 lasted 6 years, maybe I'm just unlucky when it comes to Asus.

 

[Curlyriff]

Ah I didn't realise they were linked, that makes sense, guess there is no way to untie the two...otherwise might get some good gains past max memory speed

Yeah I don't know how it works but if in future they could stick a small stack of RAM onto the chip with some HBM2 or something and have an option in bios to then adjust that link speed or just have it locked as fast possible then that to me would make sense but there may be limitations to why they are linked and how they work together.

 

[nashathedog]

im constantly reading ryzen will get better, it needs time to mature, but if u want 100 percent working out of the box, no issues, can it still be considered for a new build?

Expecting a new platform and a completely new cpu architecture to not have growing pains when they first come to market is unrealistic,
As for what you get if you are buying Ryzen today,
It's a competitive option with improvements to come through software updates/bios's.
With that in mind you can't go wrong.
Intels stuff is performing at it's best,
Ryzen isn't yet.
To me that's a no-brainer.
Plus if you decide to upgrade to a newer, more mature cpu's in the next couple of years you can swap out the cpu easily, without a large money loss once you sell on the one you have.
With intel I imagine you'll need a new motherboard too as I'm pretty sure Coffeelake won't be compatible with todays mb's as is usual with Intel.

They will get better but the point is they don't need to, they are already better than the 7700K.

Not quite, It depends on the use. Is it a better option? I think so.

 

[opethdisciple]

I would agree with you were the speed of the link between core clusters not linked to the RAM speed as it is in Ryzen's case. It would have been great if this link were independent of RAM speed and user adjustable, if that's even possible, then it wouldn't matter as much what kit you bought.

I have a 5820k with 32GB of DDR 4 2133 with tight timings and dual sided (my bandwidth scores are about 10% higher than single sided kits) and it's fine, not far behind my old 16GB 3000 MHz kit in Aida64.

I agree with you about Asus, I've had two Asus boards: the first, a P4C800, worked perfectly for two years before failing. My current Asus Sabertooth X99 has been giving me all sorts of issues(it's either the CPU or the board I've eliminated everything else) whereas my Gigabyte X58 UD5 lasted 6 years, maybe I'm just unlucky when it comes to Asus.

My last Asus board was a socket 775 Rampage Formula when I had my Qx9650.

Not sure why just seemed to leave me with unfavorable memories.

 

[opethdisciple]

Of the 4 mobo's under £200 which is the best one?

I don't really want to spend over £200 on the mobo unless it makes a big difference?

I see the Gigabyte board is just over £200.

I'm thinking the X370 Gaming Pro Carbon looks the best. Simpy because it lists support for higher memory OC's.

But which one is getting the most BIOS support as that is the most critical thing at this stage.

 

[cereal3]

I'm thinking the X370 Gaming Pro Carbon looks the best.

This is the one I've got in the post along with a 1700, I'll see how it fares

 

[Jon20]

I'd really like LGM to work. It could be perfect in terms of performance, general dimensions, looks and value. Please let us know on here how you get on with the new kit (and @me if you remember to!)

@Spyhop, I received the bracket/mount from Thermalright. It's exactly the same as the one that came with the LGM. Haven't tried it as well I can't be bothered to take the Noctua off and see if this one fits properly . May give it a go at some point, if I'm bored. The TY-147B's that came as well, are nice and quiet though.

 

[harney]

They will get better but the point is they don't need to, they are already better than the

7700K.

A mini audio production review for any body that is interested

FIGHT NIGHT....

Weighing in

Intel 4790k @ 4.7GHZ
32GB 2400Mhz ddr3
Gigabyte z97 ud5h (DPC latency between 30 / 50 )


Vs


Ryzen 1700..... non x @ 3.2GHZ STOCK and tested on out of the box bios
16GB 2133Mhz ddr4
MSI B350 Tomahawk (DPC latency between 155 / 250 )



Both systems running an RME 9632 & Asus xonar st under win 7

BATTLE GROUND

Image-Line Fruity loops https://www.image-line.com/flstudio/
running @ 96Khz 24 Bit
ASIO For all & RME ASIO

Running 19 Stereo tracks & 7 Mono Tracks All @ 96Khz

14 Tracks Uhe DIVA polyphonic presets in Divne mode with multicore ticked
2 Stereo Tracks Omnisphere 2 polyphonic presets
3 Strereo Sample tracks Drum Loops
7 Mono Tracks of percussion Kicks,snare,hi hats, claps,Toms ect
8 Efx reverbs, delays ,tape saturations , compressor & limiters ... Sends returns & side-chains

The Intel i7 4790k craps out @ about 97% cpu usage audio glitches buffer under-runs


The AMD Ryzen 1700 still running & with only 46% / 48% usage
So i am able to increase the track count to all most double with the 1700 until audio glitches buffer under-runs appear this was with cpu usage @85% so its a bit strange that it craps out with only being at 85%... i am hoping micro code bios updates will solve this issue ...

To add

The 7700k @ 4.8Ghz with the above settings is still going strong but at 91/93% cpu usage add a few more tracks and i hit 97/98% usage then we get the
audio glitches buffer under runs

So you can clearly see here with this Info that the 1700 for more a less the same cost as the I7's is the clear winner and bare in mind the ryzen is at stock with stock bios lame memory settings and far worse DPC latency so worse case setup out of the box and it shines ...i am very impressed with ryzen .

Clear winner as of 2/3/17 and improving is the 1700 non x

For me its a gift from AMD..which enables me to have around double the track count which means i can do away with my 3 DAW pc setup and use 2 x 1700 setup and have even more cpu grunt..

And with using less power from the wall while doing so

Yes things all-so improve once you clock up the ryzens to 3.7/3.9 ect
I will more likely start a whole thread to add all this data and what's to come with Ryzen maturing

 

[nashathedog]

So some shops have messed up and already put Ryzen 5 on sale. It'll mean we don't have to wait to see how it clocks which is good.

https://videocardz.com/67548/amd-ryzen-5-already-being-sold

 

[KrisWragg]

Got my 1700X up and running on my Asrock Taichi, RAM currently running at 2666mhz. I did try 3200mhz but it just got stuck in a bit of a boot loop spinning the fans up and down, eventually booted to windows after scaring me half to death thinking I'd killed it, but the RAM speed had gone back to 2133mhz default.

Will try a bit more tweaking and some overclocking at the weekend, think I may struggle running this 2x16GB kit at full speed until we have some more BIOS and microcode updates.

Also noticed with HWinfo that it's peaked at 3.9Ghz on one core with XFR which is pretty cool also seen all core boost of 3.5Ghz

 

[nkuk]

Got my 1700X up and running on my Asrock Taichi, RAM currently running at 2666mhz. I did try 3200mhz but it just got stuck in a bit of a boot loop spinning the fans up and down, eventually booted to windows after scaring me half to death thinking I'd killed it, but the RAM speed had gone back to 2133mhz default.

Will try a bit more tweaking and some overclocking at the weekend, think I may struggle running this 2x16GB kit at full speed until we have some more BIOS and microcode updates.

Also noticed with HWinfo that it's peaked at 3.9Ghz on one core with XFR which is pretty cool also seen all core boost of 3.5Ghz

I'm going to be building my 1800X/Taichi system over the weekend.

I read a pretty interesting thread on Reddit about getting 2x16GB ram to work at 3200mhz, you might need to work with the timings - https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/611nmt/i_got_32gb_2x16_ram_working_at_3200_last_night/

 

[Crockett]

I'm going to be building my 1800X/Taichi system over the weekend.

I read a pretty interesting thread on Reddit about getting 2x16GB ram to work at 3200mhz, you might need to work with the timings - https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/611nmt/i_got_32gb_2x16_ram_working_at_3200_last_night/

Taichi and 1700 is what I want to build with. Thanks for the link don't know much about RAM settings apart from XMP so that is an interesting read.

 

[KrisWragg]

I'm going to be building my 1800X/Taichi system over the weekend.

I read a pretty interesting thread on Reddit about getting 2x16GB ram to work at 3200mhz, you might need to work with the timings - https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/611nmt/i_got_32gb_2x16_ram_working_at_3200_last_night/

Thanks I'll have a play a bit more tonight, I think the XMP profile for my ram was 16-18-18-36, I'll give 18-18-18-36 a try The jump from 2133 to 2666 seemed to give a nice boost to Cinebench, I haven't really started doing much yet, it was getting late by the time I'd built it and installed Windows etc.

 

[opethdisciple]

What benefits do the boards over £200 have over the boards in the £150-170 bracket?

We all know that Ryzen 7 isn't going to clock much over 4Ghz so can't see benefit of more expensive boards.

 

[DragonQ]

What benefits do the boards over £200 have over the boards in the £150-170 bracket?

We all know that Ryzen 7 isn't going to clock much over 4Ghz so can't see benefit of more expensive boards.

The more expensive boards will allow Zen+ chips to be dropped in and overclocked to 4.5 GHz.

Joking aside, I think it's worth investing a bit more in a motherboard when you know it's going to last at least 3-4 generations. You'd be gutted to have a newer chip limited by your older motherboard when such an ecosystem exists.

 

[opethdisciple]

Coming from a 3570k I expect a 1700X will be quite a large uplift?

 

[gavinh87]

What benefits do the boards over £200 have over the boards in the £150-170 bracket?

We all know that Ryzen 7 isn't going to clock much over 4Ghz so can't see benefit of more expensive boards.

The more expensive boards tend to get supported longer. Something that may be helpful if you planning on sticking with AMD for a few years. Or if not at least you will get more money back when it comes to sell.

 

[AllBodies]

Coming from a 3570k I expect a 1700X will be quite a large uplift?

In single-core it'll be a nice little improvement, but not huge.

In many-core it'll be brutally fast and a massive upgrade. Should be 3x faster, or even more, in programs that can use 16+ threads.

 

[Matrix]

Hello

I’m hoping someone in here might be able to help please as i have a couple of questionsmaybe a post but didn't really get as much input as i was hoping.

Would a new Ryzen machine be good for a using for desktop work and Virtual machines ( running windows 10 ) Building for a friend

If so I'm looking at a Ryzen 17000 with a Asrock X370 Killer SLI any suggested on a decent set of ram please 32 gig ?

And another thing i personally run a 2600K ( 6 years old) with 24gig and thinking of upgrading to would i notice a huge difference for desktop work and Virtual machine ? as I'm toying with selling my 2600k , mobo , Ram and Hydro H50-1 in a bundle

Really hoping someone in here can help me and answer my questions .

Appreciate your time
Thank you.

 

[TheMorningStar]

I'm surprised Intel haven't slashed prices yet, especially of their x99 platform. Just had a look in store and it's clear that OCUK are maintaining very low numbers of x99 CPUs, so they can't be selling very well at this point. <10 on every part and all bundles are listed as out of stock. I suppose you could argue that Intel is so insanely popular that they can't get enough CPUs in, to supply demand but I really doubt that, ha.