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*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

akarypid said:
As usual, AdoredTV is on to something. After his video we had the division, the 470/1060 comparison above, and now this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/62s11m/german_tech_magazine_ct_did_a_test_with_a_fury_x/

A German magazine dared to compare the Titan X to a Fury X and got surprising results:

I look at these numbers and I can't believe them! April fools?
Click to expand...

I'm cautious about these results since it could be a cpu bottleneck at this low resolution hence why a FuryX is very close to the TitanX.

Still puzzling why the FuryX actually beats the TXP in RoTTR, Shadow of Mordor and AoTS. Surely a cpu bottleneck should result in the same fps, not a slower gpu beating the faster one?
 
fs123 said:
I'm cautious about these results since it could be a cpu bottleneck at this low resolution hence why a FuryX is very close to the TitanX.

Still puzzling why the FuryX actually beats the TXP in RoTTR, Shadow of Mordor and AoTS. Surely a cpu bottleneck should result in the same fps, not a slower gpu beating the faster one?
Click to expand...

Exactly. That there is no CPU bottleneck. AdoredTV's thesis that there's an issue with NVidia's drivers is becoming more and more credible.
 
=XDC=FluphyBunny said:
720p to bench gpus. 1st April fools of the year .
Click to expand...

You are missing the point. If there was a CPU bottleneck, we should have seen flat bars at the limit of the CPU. Instead, we see the Fury X coming out on top of a vastly superior card (the Titan X) and by a healthy margin and on several (not just one) games.

That's something else, which was the point AdoredTV was making: he thinks it is because of NVidia drivers / API implementation.

EDIT: Another way to think of it is this: you have 10billion instructions worth of work to do and the NVidia driver does them all in 2 threads, whereas the AMD driver does them across 4 threads. As a result, on the same CPU, the AMD driver hits it limit later. You would only have the 2 match each other on a dual-core system without SMT (where splitting across 4 threads does not give an advantage).

So nobody is saying there's no CPU bottleneck. What we're debating is that the CPU can be bottlenecked in 2 ways: by reaching the limit of its IPC*clock, OR by reaching the limit of its number of cores. What we have seen with Ryzen tests using Nvidia cards was the first. What remains to be seen (when Vega arrives) is the second.
 
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This has been explained so many times but no one seems to be listing, least of all English speaking mainstream reviewers....

I'll let AMD themselves explain it...

 
humbug said:
Its not an April fools, they don't do that in Germany anyway....

It really doesn't surprise me nVidia just don't do multi-threading as well as AMD, everything AMD have done in the past decade is about multi-threading.
Click to expand...

TBH with past driver & DPC issue's i have had with nvidia and this is some one on a x34 g sync and 1080 my plan this year is an all AMD gaming system... i am half way there with 2x Ryzen 1700 1 will only be used for gaming with Vega.....So just waiting on Vega which can not come soon enough ...

Basically Nvidia's eco system has / is just too damn expensive..

But i suppose this depends on the price of freesync 2 screens
 
I'm going to try another analogy:

You've got 1000 buckets of water to carry from point A to point B that are at a distance of 10 meters.

On one side you have the 7700K team, of 8 muscular guys that hit the gym hard. They can run at 1.1m/s carrying a bucket, meaning they can cover the distance and come back for the next bucket in 2*10/1.1=18.18 seconds.

On the other side you have team 1800X, which has twice as many guys. 16 healthy guys, slightly less fit. They can also carry a bucket, but can only run at 1m/s while holding it, meaning they'll come back for the next bucket in 2*10/1=20seconds.

Let's race, who will win?

Well, if they can all run at the same time it should be team 1800X right? But what if there's this other guy, let's call him the 'Nvidia driver' who's responsible for handing them the buckets? Only problem is, this bloke is kind of tired and hasn't hit the gym in a while. He passes 2 buckets to each team's members, then has to wait 20 seconds and rest before picking up the next pair...

What you have then is 2 guys from each team running like crazy, while the rest of them cheer ther teammates on. Team 7700X has the advantage because those guys are faster!

Now, this Nvidia driver guy hits the gym and becomes VERY fit. He can now passing on 2 buckets every 5 seconds for each team! A re-match is demanded.

There's 8 guys running now from each team at any one time. Team 7700K is at full speed. Team 1800X has 8 guys sitting around and cheering the other 8 on. Again it loses.

Now here comes the AMD driver guy. He's really fit, I mean REALLY fit. He can pass 2 buckets every 2 seconds to each team! Suddenly, team 1800X wins!
 
akarypid said:
...but you must be able to inject fuel in all of them!
Click to expand...

Right.... and thats an excellent point, which is where the differenced between AMD and nVidia GPU architectures come in.

AMD GPU's have 8 ACE units to handle command queues, think of those ACE units as fuel injectors, nVidia's architecture is different but its equivalent amounts to 2 ACE's.
 
humbug said:
Right.... and thats an excellent point, which is where the differenced between AMD and nVidia GPU architectures come in.

AMD GPU's have 8 ACE units to handle command queues, think of those ACE units as fuel injectors, nVidia's architecture is different but its equivalent amounts to 2 ACE's.
Click to expand...

I refer you again to.......

 
akarypid said:
I'm going to try another analogy:

You've got 1000 buckets of water to carry from point A to point B that are at a distance of 10 meters.

On one side you have the 7700K team, of 8 muscular guys that hit the gym hard. They can run at 1.1m/s carrying a bucket, meaning they can cover the distance and come back for the next bucket in 2*10/1.1=18.18 seconds.

On the other side you have team 1800X, which has twice as many guys. 16 healthy guys, slightly less fit. They can also carry a bucket, but can only run at 1m/s while holding it, meaning they'll come back for the next bucket in 2*10/1=20seconds.

Let's race, who will win?

Well, if they can all run at the same time it should be team 1800X right? But what if there's this other guy, let's call him the 'Nvidia driver' who's responsible for handing them the buckets? Only problem is, this bloke is kind of tired and hasn't hit the gym in a while. He passes 2 buckets to each team's members, then has to wait 20 seconds and rest before picking up the next pair...

What you have then is 2 guys from each team running like crazy, while the rest of them cheer ther teammates on. Team 7700X has the advantage because those guys are faster!

Now, this Nvidia driver guy hits the gym and becomes VERY fit. He can now passing on 2 buckets every 5 seconds for each team! A re-match is demanded.

There's 8 guys running now from each team at any one time. Team 7700K is at full speed. Team 1800X has 8 guys sitting around and cheering the other 8 on. Again it loses.

Now here comes the AMD driver guy. He's really fit, I mean REALLY fit. He can pass 2 buckets every 2 seconds to each team! Suddenly, team 1800X wins!
Click to expand...

It's more like Nvidia have 8 fit people with a combined IQ of 100 and each of those require someone with an average IQ to instruct them every step of the way. Also the buckets have holes and the race is who can fill up barrels the fastest.
 
akarypid said:
I'm going to try another analogy:

You've got 1000 buckets of water to carry from point A to point B that are at a distance of 10 meters.

On one side you have the 7700K team, of 8 muscular guys that hit the gym hard. They can run at 1.1m/s carrying a bucket, meaning they can cover the distance and come back for the next bucket in 2*10/1.1=18.18 seconds.

On the other side you have team 1800X, which has twice as many guys. 16 healthy guys, slightly less fit. They can also carry a bucket, but can only run at 1m/s while holding it, meaning they'll come back for the next bucket in 2*10/1=20seconds.

Let's race, who will win?

Well, if they can all run at the same time it should be team 1800X right? But what if there's this other guy, let's call him the 'Nvidia driver' who's responsible for handing them the buckets? Only problem is, this bloke is kind of tired and hasn't hit the gym in a while. He passes 2 buckets to each team's members, then has to wait 20 seconds and rest before picking up the next pair...

What you have then is 2 guys from each team running like crazy, while the rest of them cheer ther teammates on. Team 7700X has the advantage because those guys are faster!

Now, this Nvidia driver guy hits the gym and becomes VERY fit. He can now passing on 2 buckets every 5 seconds for each team! A re-match is demanded.

There's 8 guys running now from each team at any one time. Team 7700K is at full speed. Team 1800X has 8 guys sitting around and cheering the other 8 on. Again it loses.

Now here comes the AMD driver guy. He's really fit, I mean REALLY fit. He can pass 2 buckets every 2 seconds to each team! Suddenly, team 1800X wins!
Click to expand...

:)

Great all i can vision

 
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