Zen 2 is just another name for Zen+, probably because "Zen 3" is gonna make more sense than "Zen++" in 2019. I imagine Zen 2 will be a 14 nm refinement and Zen 3 maybe on a smaller node but who knows.
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*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***
- Thread starter Boomstick777
- Start date
Soldato
Well according to this
https://www.kitguru.net/components/...cpus-on-14nm-before-jumping-to-zen-2-and-7nm/
Makes sense. All AMD are behind on is clock speed. If the 80% plus full die candidate yield rumour is true they are in rude health on this process, it just needs tweaking for clock speed/efficiency.
I'm by no means a voice of authority on this but it seems AMD will roll with the core, core+ then core v2, core v2+ nomenclature
Soldato
The talk was Zen as is current
Zen "refresh" on current node
Zen 2 is 7nm
Zen 3 we have no details at all on
The refresh is next year (12 months on from release of R5/R7)
The Zen 2 is to be 2019 not Zen 3
Zen 3 is to be the 2020/2021 product from all accounts at moment.
This is based on the info before. I believe a few got confused in which referred to what with what Lisa said.
I would expect Zen refresh to be minor architecture updates and it has been stated to be moving to the refined 14nm+ to allow greater clock speeds/lower power already.
With 14nm+ I would expect an additional 300-400Mhz boost to current speeds if kept at the same power envlope (no reason to change for desktop) so you are looking at 4.0Ghz base - 4.5Ghz OC'ed for the 1800x as example.
That is my prediction. We are starting to see 3800+ Mhz RAM now so I would suggest that it will just be refined over time to make more and more DDR4 compatible.
With regards to Zen 3 I am hopeful that it will have DDR5 which is slated for 2020 and that could also see some nice changes.
Zen "refresh" on current node
Zen 2 is 7nm
Zen 3 we have no details at all on
The refresh is next year (12 months on from release of R5/R7)
The Zen 2 is to be 2019 not Zen 3
Zen 3 is to be the 2020/2021 product from all accounts at moment.
This is based on the info before. I believe a few got confused in which referred to what with what Lisa said.
I would expect Zen refresh to be minor architecture updates and it has been stated to be moving to the refined 14nm+ to allow greater clock speeds/lower power already.
With 14nm+ I would expect an additional 300-400Mhz boost to current speeds if kept at the same power envlope (no reason to change for desktop) so you are looking at 4.0Ghz base - 4.5Ghz OC'ed for the 1800x as example.
That is my prediction. We are starting to see 3800+ Mhz RAM now so I would suggest that it will just be refined over time to make more and more DDR4 compatible.
With regards to Zen 3 I am hopeful that it will have DDR5 which is slated for 2020 and that could also see some nice changes.
Soldato
We could also expect to see improvements to infinity fabric between CCX, helping to reduce the latency by bumping the internal frequency.
Soldato
I believe Infinity fabric in itself will remain pretty much how is until we go 7nm however the architecture to use Infinity Fabric may well be tweaked to improve performance there. So that would be my view on minor architecture updates.
Thanks for clarifying. So referring to the next Zen-based release (presumably Q1 2018) as Zen+ still makes sense. If they can get the clocks up by 300-400 MHz and improve the CCX Infinity Fabric bottleneck they'll be onto a winner for sure, even without taking into account any minor IPC improvements they might make. In theory it should also come out well before Intel's next architecture too (Icelake isn't due until 2019), unless of course Intel revise their current plans to try to get 10 nm viable for desktop earlier. I can't see them bringing any IPC surprises with Coffee Lake, although they'll certainly have a clock speed advantage for now.
Well you have to consider that it's also being hindered by the fixed 1:2 RAM speed ratio right now. Theoretically it's designed to go much faster but they haven't put that into the Ryzen platform yet (maybe due to technical issues). This is partially why the initial problems with fast RAM compatibility were hindering performance.
Soldato
Np, and yes. That however should go hand in hand with the improvement of the RAM speed increase also. If they can get it to work faster via architectural updates (which is my belief then that would be good) so rather than it being 1:2 RAM speed you could be talking say a 2:1 ratio so 4x faster than current. We have no idea at moment of course but that would be interesting to see what difference that would make at that stage.
The technical issue is the way that the Infinity Fabric is controlled. They would need to introduce a separate controller but that likely comes with other issues so they are linked. However the speeds discussed otherwise for things such as the GPU means that is much faster due to the nature of the controller being used for IF from all accounts (still to be confirmed mind and hopefully will be once Vega news drops).
Caporegime
Soldato
Back with the engineering samples of Zen there was a BIOS option to run the infinity fabric at 1:1 or 1:2 (the current locked setting), if on the refresh or Zen2 they allow switching to 1:1 it'd give the communication between CCX's a nice boost.
Me too! I bought 3866 RAM in the belief that 3600 timings would be unlocked with the microcode updates, getting to 3866 or 4000mhz would be a nice bonus!
Good to hear the May 1.0.0.6 update is still on track for a May release.
Soldato
Will there be a raffle soon on OCUK?
Indeed, The Scone PC, should be raffled soon, me thinks.
Permabanned
Anyone know how mush a ticket will be? I'm thinking of skipping the lottery to buy a raffle ticket or two 
Caporegime
Expensive for a B350 motherboard but look at the VRM section:
https://www.techpowerup.com/233673/asus-intros-the-rog-strix-b350-f-gaming-motherboard
I wonder if it will be a "cheaper" alternative to an X370 one.
https://www.techpowerup.com/233673/asus-intros-the-rog-strix-b350-f-gaming-motherboard
I wonder if it will be a "cheaper" alternative to an X370 one.
Soldato
I'd imagine after the initial gouge on release, it's gotta be £130 at most.
Caporegime
I'd imagine after the initial gouge on release, it's gotta be £130 at most.
Its £117 on pre-order from OcUK although the MSI Gaming Plus X370 is not much more expensive.
Soldato
Don't like MSI myself, have had issue with their GPUs and a couple of boards over the years.
What's the best all round MATX AM4 board at the moment? Only need 1 m2
What's the best all round MATX AM4 board at the moment? Only need 1 m2
Soldato
Yeah, it looks like it will settle at £105-£115 from what I can see. Looks like a nice board, and if it is as good as the ASRock B350 Fatl1ty board for £100, then it may be worth getting for the next couple of builds I am looking at. Although I am supposed to be doing Ryzen 3 builds soon as well, and these might be overkill for them.