I have no doubt, but that's not what I was talking about. For a long time people have been able to buy a Pentium or Core i3 for a budget PC (not talking about gaming at all), whereas AMD has had nothing at those kinds of price points until now. The R3 2200G comes close but doesn't offer anything over the i3-8100 that would be useful in a non-gaming, non-overclocked PC. Given Intel's lack of any Coffee Lake CPUs below the i3-8100 it would've been a great opportunity to undercut them somehow.
-
Competitor rules
Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.
*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***
- Thread starter Boomstick777
- Start date
Caporegime
Good point, in the past AMD has Athon's, salvaged APU's with non functioning iGPU's, AMD have always offered these for around £30 to £80 https://www.overclockers.co.uk/amd-...d-core-processor-ad860kxbjabox-cp-386-am.html
The problem is those don't have any way to output a display on their own, perhaps AMD could make a none SMT Quad with Vega 5? for £50 and Dual Core Vega 3 for £40 to give the Pentiums and Celeron's, like the G4560 a run for its money.
My thoughts on it; The problem is while Intel can justify having a whole manufacturing setup just for budget CPU's, because Intel can shift them at volumes to justify that and pay for it.
AMD don't have volume of customers for them, it just wouldn't pay for the investment needed to run a separate production line to Ryzen for smaller CPU's and Ryzen its self can only be hacked down so far before its too cheap vs cost to sell.
AMD do offer a sub £100 i3, its the 2200G, it is a competitive product as a CPU alone, but for sub £60 Pentiums and Celeron's they need a lot more market share
Last edited:
I would like to buy one of the following R3 2200G, R5 2400G or i3-8100 But the cost of DDR4 and no cheap motherBoards for the i3-8100 has stopped me from buying until prices come down if ever they do or manufacturers brings out some cheaper motherboards for the i3 i will stick with what i have.
What are you going to use the 8100 on? It only works on Z370 which is 120$ + 120$ from 8100. That is almost same as 1600 + B350 = 265$, not to mention 2200G + A320 150$.
Caporegime
Its quite funny how when a Ryzen 3 2200G utterly destroys a Core i3 8100 for the IGP,people tend to concentrate on the smaller difference on the CPU side,when nobody would notice it in normal use,and if you buy a £100 CPU I can't see you spending £500 to £1000 on a graphics card either.
Plus,the Ryzen 3 2200G is cheaper too than the Core i3 8100 and AMD has said the platform will be supported for the next few years,which is great if your motherboard goes kaput out of warranty. When my socket 1155 one went it was a pain to find a new one,especially in a mini-ITX form factor at a reasonable price.
Plus,the Ryzen 3 2200G is cheaper too than the Core i3 8100 and AMD has said the platform will be supported for the next few years,which is great if your motherboard goes kaput out of warranty. When my socket 1155 one went it was a pain to find a new one,especially in a mini-ITX form factor at a reasonable price.
I know that, see my post before the one you quoted.
No-one would notice the vastly superior IGP in normal use either, unless they are gaming or maybe doing some kind of GPU acceleration. Haven't seen any reviews that cover GPU acceleration tasks yet, are there any out there?
Slightly cheaper, and while Intel doesn't have budget Coffee Lake motherboards quite a lot cheaper. But when they do, "slightly cheaper" will not counter Intel's mindshare. I'm just sceptical that these CPUs will help AMD get into the budget/office PC market (not that I think they are targetting it specifically). Obviously Summit/Pinnacle Ridge doesn't work either because they have no IGP at all.
I think these chips are great and will sell tonnes, I'm just talking about a different scenario here.
I hope that OEMs start using these new APUs. I like the idea of a cheap family/homework machine, that can dabble in gaming. Though that might just be nostalgia for the late 90s PC market on my part 
No idea if anyone actually buys desktop PCs like that anymore
No idea if anyone actually buys desktop PCs like that anymore
Caporegime
I see where DragonQ is coming from, to a large degree he is right, IMO, tho the 2200G is a good competitor to the i3 8100 as a CPU, this also ignoring Intel's currently more expensive Motherboards.
But beyond that AMD don't have a budget range, Intel do have a very good Budget CPU range, its hard to argue away the G4560, and that's just one example.
But beyond that AMD don't have a budget range, Intel do have a very good Budget CPU range, its hard to argue away the G4560, and that's just one example.
Caporegime
I think people don't appreciate how close the Ryzen 3 2200G is to the Core i3 8100 in CPU performance everyday stuff like web browsing,etc. Even performance with the kinds of dGPUs budget gamers would get is not really that much different either. Running a Titan X on one shows nothing realistic as at the rate budget dGPUs are slowing down it would take years for that level of performance to be available at a budget level.
These systems will be use mostly for web browsing,light office work and a bit of gaming. How do I know?? Me and my mates have done plenty of those kind of builds over the last decade.
Anyone buying a desktop with a £100 CPU instead of laptop tends to do that sort of thing.
This is why all the "you need 16GB" is a load of silliness. I have an A6 3670K based system,with 8GB of DDR3,and its fine for general purpose stuff,so if anyone is buying a new cheapo desktop,then the whole CPU performance thing is just pointless.
Games like Overwatch are played by over 30 million people,and a number of those E-Sports titles are played by 10s of millions more. The fact that almost every major news outlet has pointed out these run much better on the APUs when compared to Intel,and some have showed even with slow RAM Intel still gets beaten,especially with dGPUs costing so much is why they will sell.
Also,AMD does have 2C/4T parts out for mobile. ATM,they have Bristol Ridge parts they need to ditch with APUs like the A8 9600 now £50,so once these parts are sold out,AMD will release a 2C/4T part which can be overclocked on a £60 motherboard. Intel will also get hammered on IGP gaming too,and I doubt with a budget dGPU it will make much difference in actual gaming.
I mean,Ryzen has barely entered mainstream desktops,has barely entered laptops and is only really being deployed to servers now in any volume,but AMD revenue has skyrocketed.
Edit!!
That is the other problem - look at review sites testing the G4560 and GT1030 and those deciding to use a Core i7 8700k and a GT1030. You will find those with the G4560 tend to have worse results.
Second Edit!!
Also many websites are very vague on whether the Spectre and Meltdown bios updates have been applied to systems,etc.
These systems will be use mostly for web browsing,light office work and a bit of gaming. How do I know?? Me and my mates have done plenty of those kind of builds over the last decade.
Anyone buying a desktop with a £100 CPU instead of laptop tends to do that sort of thing.
This is why all the "you need 16GB" is a load of silliness. I have an A6 3670K based system,with 8GB of DDR3,and its fine for general purpose stuff,so if anyone is buying a new cheapo desktop,then the whole CPU performance thing is just pointless.
Games like Overwatch are played by over 30 million people,and a number of those E-Sports titles are played by 10s of millions more. The fact that almost every major news outlet has pointed out these run much better on the APUs when compared to Intel,and some have showed even with slow RAM Intel still gets beaten,especially with dGPUs costing so much is why they will sell.
Also,AMD does have 2C/4T parts out for mobile. ATM,they have Bristol Ridge parts they need to ditch with APUs like the A8 9600 now £50,so once these parts are sold out,AMD will release a 2C/4T part which can be overclocked on a £60 motherboard. Intel will also get hammered on IGP gaming too,and I doubt with a budget dGPU it will make much difference in actual gaming.
I mean,Ryzen has barely entered mainstream desktops,has barely entered laptops and is only really being deployed to servers now in any volume,but AMD revenue has skyrocketed.
Edit!!
That is the other problem - look at review sites testing the G4560 and GT1030 and those deciding to use a Core i7 8700k and a GT1030. You will find those with the G4560 tend to have worse results.
Second Edit!!
Also many websites are very vague on whether the Spectre and Meltdown bios updates have been applied to systems,etc.
Last edited:
Caporegime
Yeah you only need 16Gb if you're running 1440P + Ultra settings latest AAA titles, which is not what this thing is.
8GB with one or two GB of that dedicated to the GPU is more than enough for a 2200G / 2400G E-Sports box.
In fact here, An 'overclockable' E-Sports box:
ASRock AB350M AMD B350 £70
Ryzen 3 2200G £90
Dark T-Force 8GB (2x4GB) DDR4 PC4-24000C16 3000MHz Dual Channel £100
1TB Blue 7200rpm Internal Hard Drive £42
Kolink Satellite Plus Aluminium Micro-ATX Case - Black £37 < nice little case
KL-SFX350 350W 80 Plus Bronze £37
£376, who says PC gaming is expensive?
If you're not overclocking you can get an A320 board for £45, you can also get a cheaper tho still half decent case for about £25.
8GB with one or two GB of that dedicated to the GPU is more than enough for a 2200G / 2400G E-Sports box.
In fact here, An 'overclockable' E-Sports box:
ASRock AB350M AMD B350 £70
Ryzen 3 2200G £90
Dark T-Force 8GB (2x4GB) DDR4 PC4-24000C16 3000MHz Dual Channel £100
1TB Blue 7200rpm Internal Hard Drive £42
Kolink Satellite Plus Aluminium Micro-ATX Case - Black £37 < nice little case
KL-SFX350 350W 80 Plus Bronze £37
£376, who says PC gaming is expensive?
If you're not overclocking you can get an A320 board for £45, you can also get a cheaper tho still half decent case for about £25.
Caporegime
Well if you shop around you can actually get 3200MHZ RAM,a better case and a better PSU for the price too,so even better!!
Even looking at the slower RAM results,the performance difference over Intel IGPs so huge,even in that case,you will be able to play some E-sports titles and the Intel system will need a graphics card.
Plus if you need a new monitor,FreeSync ones are under £100 too.
I honestly think AMD needs to hammer this home as much as possible.
I do wonder how close an R3 2200G rig would come to a current generation console at similar image quality settings. Let's say a cheap B350 board and 8 GiB of half-decent RAM (whatever fits the budget a console would have). Obviously the console will always be cheaper once you factor in the case, PSU, peripherals, etc. but I'd be interested in such a comparison.
Yes, they are targetting mobile more heavily. I do expect 2c/4t mobile APUs based on Zen at some point but I haven't checked the roadmaps recently.
That's because it can't. Mainstream desktops never have discrete GPUs and Ryzen needs (needed) one. Summit Ridge was great for enthusiast, workstation, or gaming rigs, but not OEM or mainstream. At first the huge core/price advantage might've worked because even with an RX 550/GT 1030 it'll have worked out cheaper than Intel's equivalent but with Intel's prices cuts and AMD's lack of budget parts (R3 1200 + GPU > £150) they definitely needed these Raven Ridge parts.
Caporegime
It will be interesting but consoles will be cheaper,but then again a PC is more flexible. I think with the current cost of performance cards,its the higher end consoles which seem better value in some ways.
My point is that indicates most Ryzen sales have been in the more niche DIY desktop and higher end prebuilt gaming PC market. Now AMD has an APU,they can get into PCs which are sold by the larger bricks and mortar places around the world. Places which are most cost sensitive like in China,AMD could potentially do very well.
Caporegime
Well if you shop around you can actually get 3200MHZ RAM,a better case and a better PSU for the price too,so even better!!
Even looking at the slower RAM results,the performance difference over Intel IGPs so huge,even in that case,you will be able to play some E-sports titles and the Intel system will need a graphics card.
Plus if you need a new monitor,FreeSync ones are under £100 too.
I honestly think AMD needs to hammer this home as much as possible.
Yeah, or if you really spend some time shopping around you could build a nice little E-Sports box for £300, that's awesome, with all else that's going on AMD may have just saved PC Gaming
Yeah, or if you really spend some time shopping around you could build a nice little E-Sports box for £300, that's awesome, with all else that's going on AMD may have just saved PC Gaming
So what parts where you looking at for this £300 build maybe you can list them.
Soldato
Caporegime
And get myself banned...
Replace the motherboard i added to the original link with this one https://www.overclockers.co.uk/msi-...am4-ddr4-micro-atx-motherboard-mb-335-ms.html and the case with this one https://www.overclockers.co.uk/kolink-klm-001-micro-atx-case-black-ca-007-kk.html
You're already down to £345.
Soldato
I didn't want the links just the parts list.
Caporegime
Some multiplayer benchmarks of the Ryzen 5 2400G in OW and BF1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=210tkGvTTiA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0cxIRp8Q0g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=210tkGvTTiA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0cxIRp8Q0g