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*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***
- Thread starter Boomstick777
- Start date
The company is owned mostly by AMD, but it's a bit worrying since China has a tendency to steal IP.
This is a great chance for AMD to expand their market presence in China. China is a huge market and all cash coming from there will help AMD finally step on their feet and begin launching even more exciting products for all of us.
Soldato
No dedicated thread for the 2200G/2400G so though I'd see how many other people have used them in here?
I just built one as a gift, using an ASRock B350 Mini-ITX board, with 2200G and 16GB DDR4 3600 (running at 3333 C14 VLL sub-timings) and have the GPU core at 1625-1650MHz, using a 1.175 SoC and 1.30-1.325v GPU.
Spent a significant amount of time messing around with it, and I am super impressed, it's out of my hands now, but I am in the process of sourcing some small heatsinks for the SoC VRM's since they are naked, and the case it is in has very little air flow. Once I've got them installed, I would think I'll be able to get 1700MHz on the GPU, or 1675MHz at worst.
Just looking for other feedback, who else has one, what is the configuration, max GPU speeds etc. I'm getting this one back next weekend to upgrade the SSD to an M.2 module so I'll do some benchmarks for it.
Oh, this was all on the box cooler, using no thermal paste (long story).
I just built one as a gift, using an ASRock B350 Mini-ITX board, with 2200G and 16GB DDR4 3600 (running at 3333 C14 VLL sub-timings) and have the GPU core at 1625-1650MHz, using a 1.175 SoC and 1.30-1.325v GPU.
Spent a significant amount of time messing around with it, and I am super impressed, it's out of my hands now, but I am in the process of sourcing some small heatsinks for the SoC VRM's since they are naked, and the case it is in has very little air flow. Once I've got them installed, I would think I'll be able to get 1700MHz on the GPU, or 1675MHz at worst.
Just looking for other feedback, who else has one, what is the configuration, max GPU speeds etc. I'm getting this one back next weekend to upgrade the SSD to an M.2 module so I'll do some benchmarks for it.
Oh, this was all on the box cooler, using no thermal paste (long story).
Soldato
- Joined
- 5 Feb 2009
- Posts
- 3,898
Hey, I knew our sons had similar systems, but I didn't realise they were identical in terms of board and RAM as well. Working well for my lad too.
@Journey - those are some nice overclocking results on stock cooling! What your chip and VRM temperatures like? And what are you using for stability testing the iGPU?
And did you say no thermal paste?!
I had to get a boot kit from AMD as my board would not boot with the 2200g in due to needing a bios update.
I am suspended on how smoothly games run on it and I am also using the stock cooler but not done any overclocking as I haven't done anything in many many years.
I have seen a few 2200 and 2400s for sale in the mm so some people seem to be moving away from them. I got this gpu as a low end low power gaming pc for my son and when he gets older and plays other games i can just upgrade the cpu and not. Red a whole new system
Soldato
Hey, I knew our sons had similar systems, but I didn't realise they were identical in terms of board and RAM as well. Working well for my lad too.
@Journey - those are some nice overclocking results on stock cooling! What your chip and VRM temperatures like? And what are you using for stability testing the iGPU?
And did you say no thermal paste?!
It's not my sons, but was built for a good friend of mine who hasn't had much luck of recent so was a surprise for him.
I can't tell you the temps of the VRM, but they are pretty hot. I am in the process of finding a small heat sink I can cut down to fit them, which should allow a bit more headroom on the iGPU overclock. For stress testing it used a bit of OCCT, and a loop of Unigine Heaven, took a good few hours of tinkering to get the right volts/clocks but was well worth the effort.
Yes, no thermal paste due to a miscommunication which I found out only after doing all of the testing
It was still running reasonably cool, but Ryzen CPU's are very cool running, but once I get it back I'm going to put decent paste on it.
Soldato
- Joined
- 5 Feb 2009
- Posts
- 3,898
It's not my sons, but was built for a good friend of mine who hasn't had much luck of recent so was a surprise for him.
Ah, I was addressing that bit to @ED209. I know he and I were both making 2200G systems for our lads, and it turns out we've used exactly the same board and RAM
I can't tell you the temps of the VRM, but they are pretty hot. I am in the process of finding a small heat sink I can cut down to fit them, which should allow a bit more headroom on the iGPU overclock. For stress testing it used a bit of OCCT, and a loop of Unigine Heaven, took a good few hours of tinkering to get the right volts/clocks but was well worth the effort.
Yes, no thermal paste due to a miscommunication which I found out only after doing all of the testing
I was thinking of getting some of these Enzotech VRM heatsinks before I try to overclock the onboard graphics (OcUK don't sell them, unfortunately):
If you've managed okay on stock cooling, though, I might try some more modest 1500MHz+ iGPU clocking and see how it goes.
Did you change anything else other than the SoC and GPU voltages?
Soldato
I'm just going to Dremel a couple of old GPU RAM sinks I have kicking around my spares box, and put them on with some of the 9448A 3M thermal adhesive tape, as those sinks you linked are way to expensive for my liking. If you look on Aliexpress, you can get a 12 pack of heat sinks in various sizes for $2.86 + $0.25 shipping, they'll take about 30 days to get here though, oh they already have tape on too.
I left the CPU clock at stock, and just upped the iGPU to 1.3v and 1600MHz to start, and put the SoC voltage to 1.1625v and went from there. Don't forget most of these APU's have a frequency black-hole from about 1350-1500MHz, so try above 1500MHz or you may not have much luck.
As you already know, the biggest difference is the RAM timings and speed, so get it running as fast/tight as you possibly can. I couldn't get 3600MHz fully stable at C16, so dropped to 3333MHz C14 VLL and that brought the biggest performance uplift. When I get more time with it, I'll grab some exact details and benchmarks.
Soldato
- Joined
- 5 Feb 2009
- Posts
- 3,898
I'm just going to Dremel a couple of old GPU RAM sinks I have kicking around my spares box, and put them on with some of the 9448A 3M thermal adhesive tape, as those sinks you linked are way to expensive for my liking. If you look on Aliexpress, you can get a 12 pack of heat sinks in various sizes for $2.86 + $0.25 shipping, they'll take about 30 days to get here though, oh they already have tape on too.
I left the CPU clock at stock, and just upped the iGPU to 1.3v and 1600MHz to start, and put the SoC voltage to 1.1625v and went from there. Don't forget most of these APU's have a frequency black-hole from about 1350-1500MHz, so try above 1500MHz or you may not have much luck.
As you already know, the biggest difference is the RAM timings and speed, so get it running as fast/tight as you possibly can. I couldn't get 3600MHz fully stable at C16, so dropped to 3333MHz C14 VLL and that brought the biggest performance uplift. When I get more time with it, I'll grab some exact details and benchmarks.
Ah, cheers. They do look better value, and I'm in no rush when it comes to this so the long delivery time is not an issue. I think those Enzotech sinks come with thermal tape, though - at least the product listing I've seen stipulates that. I'll have a search on there and see what comes up.
I did know about the frequency black hole, yeah. I was thinking 1500MHz+ would be good, but as you went straight to 1600 with such ease I might just give that a go.
As for RAM, I have cheaper Hynix RAM in this system, 3000C16 on DOCP. I might see if I can it to 3200, but doubt I'll get very fast/tight with this RAM. It doesn't have to be a stellar performer, this PC, but if there's free extra performance to be had, I'll take it!
Soldato
Anyone want 10-15% IPC boost and up to 16 cores for Zen 2?
Ipc bump yes, though 16 cores is a bit overkill for regular desktops yet.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
It's not, it's the opposite.
China can steal IP full stop, reverse engineering advanced chips isn't 'that' difficult and costs a fraction of what it costs to come up with said IP yourself. The issue with China is if your business isn't in China, then Chinese courts are useless. Apple sue a Chinese factory for producing iphone knock offs and China laugh them out of the country.
By AMD building a new company in China in which they own 51% of the company, if a Chinese company now steals the IP the company AMD has in China can go to the Chinese courts and actually not get laughed out of the room. The way to secure IP in China is to have a company based in China directly so the courts can actually be used their to protect your IP.
Not only does this protect their IP, it means profit per chip made and a fab built and paid for by the Chinese company which effectively increases their production capacity.
IF China wanted 10million chips from AMD in 2019 then without this CHinese company/fab situation, that is 10mil chips that would come from Glofo/TSMC supply and that's 10mil less chips they can sell to someone else. With this deal the 10mil comes from another fab so it's essentially extra sales AMD couldn't otherwise fill due to lack of capacity.
Soldato
It will be hilarious, because Intel won't be able to trump that. They are stuck at 14nm++ CoffeeLake, and doesn't fit any more core on the package over the 8 +2 at 1150 socket.
(similarly the 2066 will struggle to fit anything over 20 cores, already 18 core CPUs cover almost all the space)
And if they try to do so, Z390 is obsolete already because new socket would be required to fit the CPUs in the mainstream market, even if they speed up the 10nm process they are having issues with. (can only produce small number of dual & quad core without functioning IGP even if it is there)
Few years ago someone else said the same for 4 core CPUs
I want to play X4, and as with X:R is designed to run on 32+ core CPUs.
And more is better in this case, because it processes the universe based on your processing power. The higher the core count, better the universe evolves.
It wont stress a 4-8 core CPU to the death, but it wont progress the universe as good as it can do with more cores.
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Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Ahaha, imagine 10-15% IPC uplift, 10% frequency bump and 100% the cores count bump
Yeah but Intel is bringing back solder on their increasing TDP desktop chips at the end of this year, this is apparently exciting to some overclocking/youtube type dudes and some Intel fan boys.
AMD get 7nm, 12-16 cores, can use the same motherboards so better value, the chip itself might well cost less than Intel's 8 core 14nm chip, it should have around the same clock speeds, likely lower tdp and maybe even higher IPC, but what is truly exciting is another rehash of Skylake gets solder added back in... woooooo.
Caporegime
Reading about the leak on Reddit,apparently the people who leaked it tend to be a bit hit and miss with these things,unlike some of the others who seem more reliable.
TBH,even if AMD had the same amount of cores as now,but decreased cache latency further(this seems to have an effect on games), and got single core boost clocks up by another 400MHZ to 500MHZ that would probably be good enough for me!!
TBH,even if AMD had the same amount of cores as now,but decreased cache latency further(this seems to have an effect on games), and got single core boost clocks up by another 400MHZ to 500MHZ that would probably be good enough for me!!
I find an IPC uplift of that magnitude very hard to believe simply because Pinnacle Ridge's IPC is already very similar to Coffee Lake's IPC and Intel have failed for 5 years to increase IPC by more than a few percent. However, it is possible that AMD's "ground up" architecture simply has more left in it than Intel's beefed-up Pentium M.