*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[4K8KW10]

First up, the guy who posted this on H has a solid rep, so this is likely a true report. Story goes that the ES was delivered to RTG for optimisation. Apparently Zen Infinity Fabric interacts with PCIe so GPU Drivers need to be optimised for each uArch.

Extremely promising if it's an early ES, but (obviously) doesn't speak for the IPC of Zen2. Looking at the Intel 9000 series, it really needs a good 10% IPC lift and to clock at 4.5+.

A bit meh if it's a late ES with 4.5 boost, where AMD will need to run fine margins to compete with the 9000 series. Maybe not looking at the current prices
Again, it depends on the performance of the 9000 series, where I'm expecting a bit of regression from the 8000 series due to latency increases.

Hard to know if it's early or not, but it sounds like EPYC products should be in the sampling phase, so surely the silicon is getting towards maturity?

Well, we have information about the IPC uplift, too:

AMD 7nm Zen 2 Speculation Hints At 16-Core AM4 CPUs And 15 Percent IPC Uplift
Read more at https://hothardware.com/news/amd-ze...pus-15-percent-ipc-uplift#Yit7ZOSK1qMMEh23.99

 

[PiKe]

That's just some random post on a forum with nothing to back it up.

No different to taking something in this thread as fact really.

I do hope its true though...

 

[Boomstick777]

This Intel launch had made me appreciate my 2700X even more. Great performance runs cool and decently priced. This overpricing trend from Intel / Nvidia and retailers is irritating. Could we see another PC market crash? These prices can't be maintained surely?

 

[0h_no_not_again]

That's just some random post on a forum with nothing to back it up.

No different to taking something in this thread as fact really.

I do hope its true though...

Completely with you, but a lot of people vouch for the leaker on H forums being reliable. As good as leaks get IMHO.

Well, we have information about the IPC uplift, too:

AMD 7nm Zen 2 Speculation Hints At 16-Core AM4 CPUs And 15 Percent IPC Uplift
Read more at https://hothardware.com/news/amd-ze...pus-15-percent-ipc-uplift#Yit7ZOSK1qMMEh23.99

That's an exciting prospect, thanks for the link. Sounds like the 15% IPC uplift was sourced from a Chinese forum, no information on the leakers credibility. Regardless, Zen 2 could be quite exceptional.


It would be absolutely brilliant to see AMD match or slightly beat 9900k performance at a ?lower? price.

Pricing is another unknown, where it sounds like 7nm is pricey.

 

[d_brennen]

Pricing is another unknown, where it sounds like 7nm is pricey.

I've seen talk on another forum, and on another topic, that 7nm at TSMC is working out not as eye watering as expected cost wise. Add in die area shrinkage, the chiplet approach (defects get binned and used and sold in dual die+ config E.G. 2600), AMD might have hit a absolute monster product, assuming they get the wafer allocation they need.

 

[0h_no_not_again]

I've seen talk on another forum, and on another topic, that 7nm at TSMC is working out not as eye watering as expected cost wise. Add in die area shrinkage, the chiplet approach (defects get binned and used and sold in dual die+ config E.G. 2600), AMD might have hit a absolute monster product, assuming they get the wafer allocation they need.

Interesting. Are TSMC able to amortise the high upfront investment for 7nm due to their high demand?

For a bit of reference to the costs: A major reason GloFo pulled out of 7nm was their lack of cash required to meet reasonable wafer throughput and lower costs. From memory, they needed something like an EXTRA 3 Billion USD in cash to hit a reasonable throughput, and no investors were forthcoming. That's on top of prior development and investment!!

AMD are playing a high risk game, where TSMC could sink their entire next gen portolio by limiting 7nm supply.

 

[d_brennen]

Interesting. Are TSMC able to amortise the high upfront investment for 7nm due to their high demand?

AMD are playing a high risk game, where TSMC could sink their entire next gen portolio by limiting 7nm supply.

Seems they have the financing and incentive to get 7nm done but only time will tell. AMD betting the farm on TSMC isn't great agreed, that's why they targeted both fab's 7mn from the very beginning. This was something I thought was very bold from AMD and GloFo's failure to deliver is evidence it was a good call.

 

[SiDeards73]

Interesting. Are TSMC able to amortise the high upfront investment for 7nm due to their high demand?

For a bit of reference to the costs: A major reason GloFo pulled out of 7nm was their lack of cash required to meet reasonable wafer throughput and lower costs. From memory, they needed something like an EXTRA 3 Billion USD in cash to hit a reasonable throughput, and no investors were forthcoming. That's on top of prior development and investment!!

AMD are playing a high risk game, where TSMC could sink their entire next gen portolio by limiting 7nm supply.

I think GloFo's track record deterred investors and definitely companies wanting to utilise their fabs, AMD is risking on 7nm with TSMC, but lets be honest TSMC have a pretty damn good track record, especially if you compare to GloFo, who was AMD's main fab partner. TSMC is definitely a step up from GloFo, but yeah its a huge gamble, i am pretty sure though given the level of investment from AMD there will be all sorts of assurances and clauses in place, as a bad node could effectively sink AMD.

I have a good feeling of TSMC's 7nm though, i think its going to be pretty damn good. Im really looking forward to 7nm Ryzen but even more looking forward to AMD producing a high end 7nm GPU via TSMC.

 

[Armageus]

I've seen talk on another forum, and on another topic, that 7nm at TSMC is working out not as eye watering as expected cost wise. Add in die area shrinkage, the chiplet approach (defects get binned and used and sold in dual die+ config E.G. 2600), AMD might have hit a absolute monster product, assuming they get the wafer allocation they need.

TSMC are also making good progress on 5nm, so I would assume that means they must be fairly happy with how 7nm has gone.

https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1333827

Some other links here:
https://semiaccurate.com/forums/showthread.php?9178-Tsmc-n5

 

[LePhuronn]

Putting all your eggs in one basket is never good, but I think the fact that Vega 20 and EPYC 2 were brought forward by months is strong evidence that TSMC are pulling a blinder with their 7nm process. And given AMD will be pushing Zen 2, Vega 20 and Navi through TSMC in the next 12 months alone, I don't think there's any risk that they'll get bumped down the queue in favour of other clients.

 

[subbytna]

MSI B450 Tomahawk got good reviews, It's on offer here at the moment £99.95.

Built two customer PC's with this motherboard. Perfect for the job.

 

[Robert]

How is Ryzen with multiple sticks of ram? Just got the Aorus MATX B450 board and intend to run 4 sticks of LPX DDR3200. I’ve seen mention of issues on the web, but they seem to be from last year.

 

[Panos]

Interesting. Are TSMC able to amortise the high upfront investment for 7nm due to their high demand?

For a bit of reference to the costs: A major reason GloFo pulled out of 7nm was their lack of cash required to meet reasonable wafer throughput and lower costs. From memory, they needed something like an EXTRA 3 Billion USD in cash to hit a reasonable throughput, and no investors were forthcoming. That's on top of prior development and investment!!

AMD are playing a high risk game, where TSMC could sink their entire next gen portolio by limiting 7nm supply.

The TSMC fabs are built by Apple's money, so you shouldn't worry about them finding the cash for the investments.

 

[Panos]

Built two customer PC's with this motherboard. Perfect for the job.

Hows with overclocking?

 

[SiDeards73]

I rad an article today about TSMCs expected revenue to decline due to the slow down of sales of Apples products.. sounds good to me as that means more fab time for others

Apple phone sales have been slowing down for a while though in all honesty.

Another brand who are finding out your customers will only allow you to fleece them so much before they stop upgrading.

 

[subbytna]

Hows with overclocking?

Holds an all core 4.0 overclock just fine on two 2600x builds. Temps were fine 50-60

 

[SiDeards73]

Anyone playing World of Warcraft? i read that they have updated the DX12 engine on the test server to support more multithreading, some guy with a Ryzen and a Vega got a decent fps boost.. will see if i can find the link.

Link to Article https://www.overclock3d.net/news/so...f_warcraft_with_a_planned_directx_12_update/1

Link to reddit thread https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/9mvuhd/new_multithreaded_optimisations_are_coming_to/

 

[DragonQ]

Anyone playing World of Warcraft? i read that they have updated the DX12 engine on the test server to support more multithreading, some guy with a Ryzen and a Vega got a decent fps boost.. will see if i can find the link.

Link to Article https://www.overclock3d.net/news/so...f_warcraft_with_a_planned_directx_12_update/1

Link to reddit thread https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/9mvuhd/new_multithreaded_optimisations_are_coming_to/

My girlfriend always tries to convince me to play WoW but I have always managed to refuse. She might be interested in this though...do you know if it only really helps high core count CPUs or would an i5-2500K also benefit?

 

[SiDeards73]

My girlfriend always tries to convince me to play WoW but I have always managed to refuse. She might be interested in this though...do you know if it only really helps high core count CPUs or would an i5-2500K also benefit?

No idea tbh the game is single threaded pretty much, so anything that can expose more threads is going to help, some guy with a 2700X and a Vega 64 got a 25% uplift though at 1440p. The report says its upto 16% at 4k too.. Im wondering if they are able to offload more onto the GPU

 

[Boot_Loop]

The TSMC fabs are built by Apple's money, so you shouldn't worry about them finding the cash for the investments.

Yes this is what has given them the R&D to leap-frog Intel in process node advancement, as well as other big clients.

Ryzen 3700X: 8-CORE/16-THREAD, 4.8Ghz boost clock, 12% IPC increase is a reasonable expectation. This would trounce the upcoming Intel 9900K. That CPU's power draw would make it look like a relic in comparison, for one.